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posted
I go to MEPS soon, have great scores for the ASVAB, and I am looking to go into an intel MOS. What are my chances for going to learn a language?
 
Posts: 8 | Location: Virginia Beach, VA | Registered: 30 March 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of SFC RossiJ
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Very good. 97 series all require language and you will go to DLI in Monterey, CA to learn it...DLI is an EXCELLENT language school. If you pass with a 2, 2, 2 proficiency (which you will beause you need to in order to be MOSQ) they will also give you an AA for your language because they are an accredited university. DO IT...IT'S def. worth it.

http://www.us-army-info.com/pa...ntelligence-mos.html

http://www.dliflc.edu/index.html
 
Posts: 275 | Location: Djibouti | Registered: 17 May 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of Shewtor McGavin
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97 series no longer exists. All intel has been 35 series for almost 4 years now.

I know that 35M (97E) no longer requires a foreign language. However, 35P requires one.


Sequence #229
 
Posts: 283 | Registered: 26 July 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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Are there more Intel MOSs with a language requirement? What about 35F or 35M, or 35N?
 
Posts: 8 | Location: Virginia Beach, VA | Registered: 30 March 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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Also, what is a 2,2,2 proficiency? I REALLY would like to learn a language, but I know the needs of the Army come first.
 
Posts: 8 | Location: Virginia Beach, VA | Registered: 30 March 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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35F never had a language requirement. After about 2009 or so 35M no longer was a language dependent MOS. I BELIEVE 35 N does though.

2,2,2 proficiency means you speak the language fairly well. For perspective, about as well as most citizens speak English if that helps.
 
Posts: 2619 | Registered: 08 March 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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How did this turn out? with being Prior Service were you even offered much more than 18X?
 
Posts: 2619 | Registered: 08 March 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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Well there's your asnswer all Prior Service.
 
Posts: 2619 | Registered: 08 March 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of 35 Series
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Corvette 2/2/2 is reading/listening/speaking. It's not that great to be truthful.

3/3 is about the equivalent of a high school graduate. A 5 is the equivalent of a native speaker but the DLPT doesn't test above a 3 unless specifically requested.

Here is a better breakdown:

quote:

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/capemay/education/dlpt.asp

LVL 2:

Limited working proficiency

*

Reading: Sufficient comprehension to read simple, authentic written material in a form equivalent to usual printing or typescript on subjects within a familiar context. Able to read with some misunderstandings straightforward, familiar, factual material, but in general insufficiently experienced with the language to draw inferences directly from the linguistic aspects of the text. Can locate and understand the main ideas and details in material written for the general reader. However, persons who have professional knowledge of a subject may be able to summarize or perform sorting and locating tasks with written texts that are well beyond their general proficiency level. The individual can read uncomplicated, but authentic prose on familiar subjects that are normally presented in a predictable sequence which aids the reader in understanding. Texts may include descriptions and narrations in contexts such as news items describing frequently occurring events, simple biographical information, social notices, formulaic business letters, and simple technical material written for the general reader. Generally the prose that can be read by the individual is predominantly in straightforward/high-frequency sentence patterns. The individual does not have a broad active vocabulary (that is, which he/she recognizes immediately on sight), but is able to use contextual and real-world cues to understand the text. Characteristically, however, the individual is quite slow in performing such a process. Is typically able to answer factual questions about authentic texts of the types described above.
*

Listening: Sufficient comprehension to understand conversations on routine social demands and limited job requirements. Able to understand face-to-face speech in a standard dialect, delivered at a normal rate with some repetition and rewording, by a native speaker not used to dealing with foreigners, about everyday topics, common personal and family news, well-known current events and routine office matters through descriptions and narration about current, past and future events; can follow essential points of discussion or speech at an elementary level on topics in his/her special professional field. Only understands occasional words and phrases of statements made in unfavorable conditions, for example through loudspeakers outdoors. Understands factual content. Native language causes less interference in listening comprehension. Able to understand facts; i.e., the lines but not between or beyond the lines.


That being said, often times scores can be misleading. I graduated DLI as a 3/3/1+ (2 and 2+ speaking scores are VERY rare in Persian Farsi). I have acted as an interpreter on many occasions in Dari in Afghanistan and in Persian during exercises as recently as February.

However, since the newest version of the DLPT has come out, I am only a 2/2 (the last number, the oral proficiency, is only given in special circumstances to include initial graduation from DLI). So my language skills are far superior to what my test scores indicate.

Unfortunately the score chart still hasn't changed, just the test. So a 2/2 is still pretty mediocre.

Native speakers should have no difficultly scoring 3-5 on DLPT tests (provided the test is testing in their applicable dialect, if they have one) so 2/2 is not so hot. It's barely passing.


______________________________________________

"an Army Linguist" - Resources and more about being an Army linguist
 
Posts: 2327 | Location: CONUS | Registered: 30 October 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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quote:
Originally posted by MI_SilentWarrior:
I know that 35M (97E) no longer requires a foreign language.
This is also not entirely correct. If a Soldier is DLI trained in their control language, they must maintain proficiency still despite the MOS being language-capable instead of language-dependent. Not to be a stickler, but this could be misleading.

Furthermore, the graduation requirement for all non-35M (to include other DoD component linguists) at DLI is 2/2/1+ (unless something has VERY recently changed). For 35M it is 2/2/2.

Per MILPER message:

quote:
B. SOLDIERS ACADEMICALLY DROPPED FROM LANGUAGE TRAINING:

(1) WHEN INITIAL ENTRY AND PRIOR SERVICE SOLDIERS ARE ACADEMICALLY DROPPED FROM A LANGUAGE COURSE OR SOLDIER FAILS TO MEET DLPT GRADUATION STANDARDS (2/2/1+), NOTIFY HRC LANGUAGE BRANCH AT 502-613-5423 OR 502-613-5416, FOR FURTHER DISPOSITION.

(3) SOLDIERS FAILING TO MEET DLPT STANDARDS MAY RECEIVE A WAIVER FROM HRC LANGUAGE BRANCH AND PROCEED TO GOODFELLOW AFB TO ATTEND 35P TRAINING. THOSE WHO DO NOT RECEIVE A WAIVER MAY BE RECLASSIFIED INTO ANOTHER LANGUAGE CAPABLE MOS OR OTHER MILITARY INTELLIGENCE (MI) SHORTAGE MOS.


Lastly they will not "give" you a degree for your language. You still must complete common core classes, to include science with lab, English Comp, Algebra or higher, etc. They definitely give quite a bit of credit, but it's not a "gimme".

quote:
35F never had a language requirement. After about 2009 or so 35M no longer was a language dependent MOS. I BELIEVE 35 N does though.


35N is not language-dependent. Currently the only MOSs in the Army that are language-dependent are:

09L - Native speaking interpreters
35P - SIGINT
352P - SIGINT tech
37F - PSYOPS (get some training, usually not enough to be completely fluent, but you still must pass a DLAB and get language trained)
48B/C/D/E/F/G//H/I/J (foreign area officers)
18 - Some SF MOS once/if trained

And any MOS (35M/351M/35L/351L) that has previously been DLI-trained in their control language. For example, a 35M native Spanish speaker (QB language code) is exempt from the language requirement of the MOS. However, someone like myself, a 35M trained in Persian-Farsi at DLI is required to maintain language proficiency.

As a caveat, there was a MILPER message released that basically revoked the negative actions against people for failing language requirements due to OPTEMPO and the inability for units to get them language refresher (think DLI-trained Chinese Mandarin linguists deployed to Iraq over and over again).


______________________________________________

"an Army Linguist" - Resources and more about being an Army linguist
 
Posts: 2327 | Location: CONUS | Registered: 30 October 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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The funny thing is that all "Native" speakers I have met in Recruiting (there have been a lot too) seen to only score 2/2/2 if they are lucky.

Which I completely do not understand at all, because if I dreamed in a language, like many heritage speakers do I would be rather fluent in it.
 
Posts: 5 | Registered: 14 March 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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You forgot to mention Army Attache.
 
Posts: 2619 | Registered: 08 March 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of 35 Series
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quote:
Originally posted by RMEWife2011:
The funny thing is that all "Native" speakers I have met in Recruiting (there have been a lot too) seen to only score 2/2/2 if they are lucky.

Which I completely do not understand at all, because if I dreamed in a language, like many heritage speakers do I would be rather fluent in it.
There is always more to the story than what you see.

For one, the new DLPT V is very difficult. For example, the DLPT IV in Farsi would ask a question based on "a conversation in a train station". In the DLPT V, it's the same, EXCEPT that you actually now have background noise of trains going AND you're trying to translate.

More importantly, the DLPT is based on usually one dialect. So if you have a Spanish native speaker from Cuba and the the Spanish on the DLPT V is from Honduras, they might have a difficulty understanding it because of the dialects.

Someone from Yemen or Sudan taking the Arabic DLPT might fail because the Arabic DLPT is in Modern Standard Arabic. While MSA is the "standard", it is also what most of the newspapers, media, etc use, whereas someone not familiar with that print (maybe from a rural area or place without electricity) might not be exposed to that form. In addition, the Quran is written in Classical Arabic not Modern Standard Arabic, and many countries teach language while simultaneously teaching the Quran scriptures.

Lastly, the OPI (oral proficiency interview) is utterly and completely subjective in scoring. It's usually two native speakers asking you questions and asking you to solve problems (such as being on vacation with your family and trying to change your flight, or your car breaks down in a remote village, etc) and based solely on their judgment on that time. While there is specific criteria, oftentimes the instructors don't even ask the correct questions.

When I took my OPI at DLI they failed to what's called "probing" for the next highest level (level 2) because when I was describing my hobbies I said I like to clean cars. I meant to say I like to WORK ON cars (the word for clean is Tamir and work is Tamiz). This confused them and based on that one word alone they decided I didn't have the knowledge for Level 2 and so they didn't even probe me for knowledge despite that being my best subject (usually for level 2 they will ask questions and opinions on current events topics).

The questions on the DLPT are also often worded poorly in English as well, because the people making the test are not native English speakers (even though the test is supposed to be reviewed by English speaking natives before final approval). So they often use the incorrect adjective. For example, they might ask you to read a passage and say: "the author of this passage could be described as: melancholy, angry, frustrated, etc" but use the wrong word (or something close but not quite what a native would pick) for the correct answer.

And one more thing, some of the questions are in the middle eastern languages at least from poetry that's like 2000 years old.

Those are just a few examples but should paint the picture as to why it is difficult to score high, even as a native speaker, in some instances.


______________________________________________

"an Army Linguist" - Resources and more about being an Army linguist
 
Posts: 2327 | Location: CONUS | Registered: 30 October 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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quote:
Originally posted by Corvette1140:
You forgot to mention Army Attache.
Yes, but attaches can have the language requirement waived.


______________________________________________

"an Army Linguist" - Resources and more about being an Army linguist
 
Posts: 2327 | Location: CONUS | Registered: 30 October 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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To the OP, if you want to learn a language, you should try to come in as a 35P. That MOS still has the language requirement. You'll need to take a DLAB though. It's a strange test but do-able.

As far as DLPT 5, I think it is much more accurate than DLPT 4. I think folks got an inflated sense of language ability after taking what was pretty much a glorified vocab test. DLPT 5 does a better job of measuring ones ability to interact in the language, at least IMO.

Now, they did have to work out a few kinks, but it's a much better tool for measuring actual language proficiency than DLPT 4 ever was.

But hey, at least we dont take the same test as the DoS. The guys I met who had to take that one were jealous of us and wished they only had to take the DLPT.
 
Posts: 99 | Registered: 14 January 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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