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can i be denied an automatic promotion?
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I graduated from AIT in OCT 09 i reported to my first duty station on October 24th 09. Upon arrival i was informed there would be an apft in 8 days. Under FM 21-20 i was given that apft as a Diag. Now it is march and i reached my automatic promotion date on Feb 24th 2010 but was informed today that i was denied promotion to E-3 because my PSG has been denying me a waiver since i got here in oct. Is this legal or acceptable? What reg covers if this can or cant be done?
 
Posts: 8 | Location: Ft. Hood | Registered: 03 March 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of MSG W
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So, when you took the diagnostic did you pass or fail?

You can be denied a waiver for any reason, you don't have a right to it. A commander can also deny an automatic promotion.
 
Posts: 399 | Location: Ft. Lewis, WA | Registered: 30 May 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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i failed the diag but as stated by my psg that is not why im being denied. im being denied because he has been denying my waiver since i got there so im guessing that there basing the decision off of the fact that my psg has been saying no to the waiver this whole time. Although yes i understand that the waiver is not a right it is for optimal performance and for deserving soldiers.
 
Posts: 8 | Location: Ft. Hood | Registered: 03 March 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of JC351LPP4
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You might want to check out:
AR 600-8-19 and AR 600-8-2.

The Commander (not PSG) can deny a promotion for pretty much any reason he/she wants. For example, if your PSG recommends that you be denied your automactic promotion because you failed to meet Army standards on an APFT, The Commander is likeley to take the PSGs recommedation.

I've got a couple of questions though:

1. Are you currently flagged?
2. If you were to take an APFT right now, would you Pass?

If you are being denied promotion because your PSG believes you are unfit to fulfill the responsiblities of being a Private First Class, You should be counseled on why you are not being promoted and what you can do to improve your performance.
 
Posts: 344 | Location: Fort Belvoir, VA | Registered: 01 November 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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It's acceptable. Like you said, waivers are a right. Only the best well rounded Soldier deserves waivers. Passing a pt test is one of my requirements as a PSG. I would never give a Soldier a waiver if he/she can't pass a pt test. You should be able to a pt test at all times. Work on your pt and ask your first line supervisor to counsel you on your shortcomings. Counselings will guide and help you understand what you need to work on to become a better Soldier and person. -SSG W
 
Posts: 12 | Registered: 03 March 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of MSG W
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Honestly, what it sounds like is your command is doing you a favor right now. They can hold off your promotion until they're sure you can pass a PT test or they could give you one right now, (which I personally would require since you've been at the unit plenty of time to be due)and you would fail and then you'd be flagged.

Let's say that we're sitting at our morning meeting w/ the 1SG and commander. He basically says, "OK, we have 1 waiver for xxxx for this month. Any takers?" Then all of the Sr. NCOs in different sections say if they have anyone. Maybe I have a soldier who was SOM last month, or I have someone who has been trying really hard and rocking at their job. I'll bring it up, as will anyone else. They take it into consideration and make a decision. They still might not select anyone. Just because I have a soldier doesn't mean I'm going to recommend them for a waiver, and I almost certainly wouldn't recommend a new soldier until I had 30-60 days to see how they perform. It's nothing personal.
 
Posts: 399 | Location: Ft. Lewis, WA | Registered: 30 May 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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Your right the PSG can deny that waiver! As a PSG its our jobs to make sure we are setting the standard for our troops. If your failing your APFT whether it be a diagnostic or Record. It shouldnt matter, you shouldnt be failing the APFT. Quit thinking about the promotion till you meet the Army standard.


"Sometimes the roots of democracy have to be watered with the blood of patriots"
 
Posts: 248 | Location: Ft Hood! | Registered: 04 December 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of AutobahnSHO
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There's some confusion in the original post.

YES, automatic promotions can be denied by the Commander, IF the Soldier isn't meeting a standard. deges7 SHOULD be promoted Feb24, if he meets the standard.

WAIVERS are something else- they are a BONUS for Great Soldiers. They are not "promised" or even given out all the time. The unit (BattalioN) might get 3 waivers for E-3 but decide not to use any of them that month. Any member of the Chain of Command could tell the Commander who does or doesn't deserve a waiver.

Oh and if you get a waiver for one rank, aren't you ineligible for promotion with another waiver?

So deges7, Start Working on your waiver for E-4!!


Be Proud of what you do- and do it Well! ~me
 
Posts: 5282 | Location: Ft Gordon (Again!!!) :-| | Registered: 22 October 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of 11BIN3ID
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deges7 just so u know a waiver isnt an automatic promotion, like you said in the title of the post.. a waiver is just that, it waives either time in grade or time in service requirements for soldiers that deserve to progress to the next rank. If you cant pass a pt test, do u think you deserve to be promoted?
 
Posts: 991 | Registered: 12 November 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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I think maybe that I'm being misunderstood. I totally am fine with my psg not giving me a waiver that is his call to make. My issue is that I have not been counceled on being denied a waiver since I got here in oct, and that my psg told me he is denying my automatic promotion, still without counseling or any justification as too why or goals that need to be met
 
Posts: 8 | Location: Ft. Hood | Registered: 03 March 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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quote:
Originally posted by 11BIN3ID:
deges7 just so u know a waiver isnt an automatic promotion, like you said in the title of the post.. a waiver is just that, it waives either time in grade or time in service requirements for soldiers that deserve to progress to the next rank. If you cant pass a pt test, do u think you deserve to be promoted?
I know a waiver is not an automatic promotion but as an e2 with a year tis is grounds for automatic promotion to e3
 
Posts: 8 | Location: Ft. Hood | Registered: 03 March 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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what is ur dor for e2? because even with 1 year in, you still need tig as an e2...u might have came in as an e2 and that would make sense, but if u came in as an e1, then you dont make tig requirements. also, you dont get a counselling on not getting a waiver, either you get it or you dont. And if he is denying your "automatic" promotion, its prolly cause of the pt test
 
Posts: 991 | Registered: 12 November 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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I came in as an e2. Ya that may be true for the apft failure but according to fm 21-20 I should never had taken the pt test being new 8 days to the unit after pcs
 
Posts: 8 | Location: Ft. Hood | Registered: 03 March 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of AutobahnSHO
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quote:
Originally posted by deges7:
I think maybe that I'm being misunderstood. I totally am fine with my psg not giving me a waiver that is his call to make. My issue is that I have not been counceled on being denied a waiver since I got here in oct, and that my psg told me he is denying my automatic promotion, still without counseling or any justification as too why or goals that need to be met


You don't have to be counseled on the waiver.

You are correct that you should be counseled about the promotion. You should also be counseled when a PT test is failed as to the consequences.

Who said that you can't take a PT test 8days after arrival? (Hint: look at the first page of your orders.)

PS- Save a copy of every important paper the Army ever gives you. MOS, Orders, PCS, etc...

Good luck with the promotion predicament!


Be Proud of what you do- and do it Well! ~me
 
Posts: 5282 | Location: Ft Gordon (Again!!!) :-| | Registered: 22 October 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of JC351LPP4
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deges7, you said: "according to fm 21-20 I should never had taken the pt test being new 8 days to the unit after pcs", Where in FM 21-20 does it say that?

Have you looked at your PCS orders bringing you to your current duty station? I GUARANTEE that somewhere in those orders it says, “You are responsible for reporting to your next duty station/school in satisfactory physical condition, able to pass the
Army Physical Fitness Test (APFT) and meet weight standards.”
 
Posts: 344 | Location: Fort Belvoir, VA | Registered: 01 November 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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