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posted
Recently one of my Soldiers had to take a PT test while on a limiting profile. She can do push-ups, sit-ups, and must do the 2.5 mile walk. How do I score this? I hear that the 2.5 mile walk is a 60 because it is a GO/ NO GO event.
Along the same lines, a Battle Buddy is submitting points for the board. His permenant profile allows him to do push-ups and the 2.5 mile walk. How do you score that? I looked in FM 21-20 and AR 600-9 (just a thought, don't know what I hoped to get from that one...). Where else should I look? Is there another way to grade these? Any help is appreciated.


Go Kinetic!
 
Posts: 100 | Location: Baghdad | Registered: 01 November 2006Report This Post

Picture of RedLeg81
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When taking an alternate event on the APFT, it is graded as GO/NO GO. No points are awarded. However, when going to a board (SOM, Promotion, etc.) the way to calculate points for the alternate event is to take the average for the other two events. For example, if you took the APFT and got 80 pts on the push-ups and 76 pts on the sit-ups (80 + 76 / 2 = 78), you would get a 78 on the alternate event = 234 overall APFT score.


REDLEG81
 
Posts: 206 | Location: Fort Bliss | Registered: 01 April 2007Report This Post

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Redleg81 is almost totally correct.
If the Test is for promotion you take the push-up score plus the sit-up score and do the math thing. If it is not for points you get an automatic 60 for passing. I know this because I did a lot of digging through regulations when people were not going to give me points for passing the bike test. All of the info you need is not in FM 21-20 or AR 600-9. There are alternate (less well known) Army memos that will tell you what to do.
 
Posts: 1 | Location: Ft. Lewis | Registered: 20 April 2007Report This Post

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Thanks RedLeg and Tawan! Does that also mean that if I do push-ups, no sit-ups, and 2.5 mile walk for points I would do:
p/u= 90
2.5 mile= 60 (GO)
s/u= 90+60/2 (75)
Total= 225
So if this is not for points (say for a Soldier not going to a board) then is the score just based on the events taken, or just left alone?
Thanks again!


Go Kinetic!
 
Posts: 100 | Location: Baghdad | Registered: 01 November 2006Report This Post

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Kinda makes me want to get a permanent profile haha. I max the pushups and situps and get about a 90 on the run. Would have been nice to have maxed out PT Points for the board. They need to come up with a way to score the walk for promotion points, it isn't fair to the Soldiers that have to do the run.
 
Posts: 264 | Registered: 10 November 2005Report This Post

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Believe me, you'd rather run than keep that kinda walking pace for 2.5 miles. I've tried to do it before to be supportive of a soldier... I ended up running.
 
Posts: 213 | Registered: 17 October 2005Report This Post

Picture of 35 Series
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can someone find that exact thing in the regulation because I have a 1SG that says you cannot get more than 180 points if you are taking a profile PT test.


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Posts: 2481 | Location: CONUS | Registered: 30 October 2005Report This Post

Picture of PA_in_2ID
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FM 21-20
page 197 (of 241)

ALTERNATE AEROBIC EVENT The event scorer prints the alternate aerobic event administered (800-yard swim, 6.2-milestationary
bicycle ergometer, 6.2-mile-bicycle test or 2.5-mile walk) in the ALTERNATE AEROBIC EVENT block. The time the
soldier completes the alternate aerobic event is recorded in minutes and seconds in the ALTERNATE AEROBIC EVENT block.
The standards for the alternate aerobic event tests are listed in FM 21-20, Chapter 14, Figure 14-9. Scoring for all alternate aerobic
events is on a GO or NO-GO basis. No point values are awarded. Circle GO if the soldier completes the alternate aerobic event
within the required time or less. Circle NO-GO if the soldier fails to complete the alternate aerobic event within the required time.
The alternate aerobic event scorer also determines the point value for push-ups and or sit-ups using the scoring standards on the
reverse side of the scorecard. The point values are recorded in the appropriate push-up and or s-itup POINTS block and the event
scorer prints his or her initials in the 2MR INITIALS block. The alternate aerobic event scorer totals the points from the push-up and
or sit-up events and records the total APFT score in the TOTAL POINTS block

FM 21-20
page 210 (of 241)

Permanent Profiles
A permanently profiled soldier is
given a physical training program by
the profiling officer using the positive
profile form DA 3349 (see Appendix
B). The profiling officer gives the
unit’s commander a list of physical
activities that are suitable for the
profiled soldier. He also indicates the
events and/or alternate aerobic event
that the soldier will do on the APFT.
This recommendation, made after
consultation with the profiled soldier,
should address the soldier’s abilities
and preference and the equipment
available. (See DA Form 3349, Physical
Profile, referenced in AR 40-501.)
The profiled soldier must perform
all the regular APFT events his medical
profile permits. Each soldier must
earn at least 60 points on the regular
events to receive a “go.” He must also
complete the alternate event in a time
equal to or less than the one listed for
his age group. For example, a soldier
whose profile forbids only running will
do the push-up and sit-up events and
an alternate aerobic event. He must get
at least a minimum passing score on
each event to earn a “go” for the test. A
soldier whose profile prevents two or
more APFT events must complete the
2-mile run or an alternate aerobic
event to earn a “go” on the test. Soldiers
who cannot do any of the aerobic
events due to a profile cannot be tested.
Such information will be recorded in
their official military record.
The standards for alternate events
are listed in Figure 14-9. Scoring for
all alternate events is on a go/no go
basis. Soldiers who do push-up and
sit-up events but who take an alternate
aerobic event are not awarded promotion
points for APFT performance.

.............nope....didn't read anything about a 180 pt score max.

The posts ABOVE in this thread seemed to Hit the Nail on the head on Scoring w/ profile.
 
Posts: 563 | Location: Camp Hovey, Korea | Registered: 23 November 2006Report This Post

Picture of 35 Series
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Yea, I appreciate it (taking the time to send this out). I have seen that already. I am just trying to find where it says how they are actually scored. Notice it doesn't say about the 180, or anything really (unless I am dense). I have heard several schools of thought:

1) Soldiers can only score 180 no matter what with alt event

2) Soldiers can only score 260 max no matter what (100 + 100 + 60 max for alt event)

3) Soldiers score the first two events normally and then the third is an avg of the first two

4) Same as "3" but only for promo points not on a reg basis.

some of those are addressed in the post but not the ones I really need. The problem I have is I am a PSG with several PP soldiers and as much as I have looked I haven't found a definitive answer I can take to the 1SG and show differently. Until then, they get 180s.


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Posts: 2481 | Location: CONUS | Registered: 30 October 2005Report This Post

Picture of PA_in_2ID
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I was also thinking the same thing.

IPAP 07-003
Here I come!!
 
Posts: 563 | Location: Camp Hovey, Korea | Registered: 23 November 2006Report This Post

Picture of PA_in_2ID
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dont give up yet...

Check this out (i have not read it all yet, but maybe there is something there)

http://community.armystudyguide.com/groupee/forums/a/tp...1065521/r/3601016931
 
Posts: 563 | Location: Camp Hovey, Korea | Registered: 23 November 2006Report This Post

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Great thread guys and gals. Got me interested so I looked it up. Here's the text from AR 600-8-19 and my thoughts after:
****************** Regulation Excerpt ******************************
b. Physical fitness test (situps, pushups, and 2-mile run) must be done according to applicable regulations and field
manuals. To qualify for promotion points, a Soldier must attain a minimum score of 60 points on each event. Each
waived event (due to profile) will be granted 60 points.
(1) Permanent profiles.
(a) Those Soldiers with permanent physical profiles for the sit-up and/or push-ups events will be granted 60 points
for each event waived and use the actual score for each event taken and must qualify on the 2-mile run or approved
alternate test according to FM 21–20.
(b) Effective 1 April 1995, Soldiers taking an alternate event for the 2-mile run and receiving a passing score
receive a score for that event equal to the average of the scores for the other two events.
****************** End Regulation Excerpt ******************************

Sooooooo......., what this tells me is, For the PT Score, you add the PU and SU together and if the alternate event is a GO, the soldier get's a passing score of whatever the SUM of the PU's and SU's are. However, for PROMOTION POINTS, items 1A and B above apply. Read it carefully!! Item 1A deals with profiles for PU's and SU's; 1B applies to the aerobic event.

Hope this helps!!!
 
Posts: 1 | Registered: 20 November 2008Report This Post

Picture of SSG Prophet
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quote:
Originally posted by dds110:
the soldier get's a passing score of whatever the SUM of the PU's and SU's are.


Actually, it's a MEAN average, not a sum. Add the points for push-ups and situps, divide by two.
 
Posts: 345 | Location: Ft. Meade, MD | Registered: 08 August 2008Report This Post

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Looking at the guidlines stated below...

(b. Physical fitness test (situps, pushups, and 2-mile run) must be done according to applicable regulations and field
manuals. To qualify for promotion points, a Soldier must attain a minimum score of 60 points on each event. Each
waived event (due to profile) will be granted 60 points.
(1) Permanent profiles.
(a) Those Soldiers with permanent physical profiles for the sit-up and/or push-ups events will be granted 60 points
for each event waived and use the actual score for each event taken and must qualify on the 2-mile run or approved
alternate test according to FM 21–20.
(b) Effective 1 April 1995, Soldiers taking an alternate event for the 2-mile run and receiving a passing score
receive a score for that event equal to the average of the scores for the other two events.)

What that states is this-even if for promotion points, if you take an alternate event or are unable to take an event due to a TEMPORARY profile, you get 60 points for it (if you pass).
IF YOU ARE ON A PERMANENT PROFILE (and ONLY on a permanent profile) you average the scores of the graded events and add it in (for example, 100 on PU, 90 on SU=95 on alt event....100 on PU, no SU taken and alt event=60 points on SU, 80 points on alt event=240 points total.

Hope this cleared things up some, looked to me like the reg was misread.
 
Posts: 6 | Registered: 06 March 2008Report This Post

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SO here is the problem and maybe i just didnn't see it lack of sleep can do that, but when a soldier takes a record pt test and it is for promotion, what do they do seeing as the conditions are the soldier can do the push-ups and the 2.5 mile walk how ever the soldier can not do sit-ups. Is it possible to still get a 300 or is this soldier just going to be out of luck?
 
Posts: 3 | Location: Korea | Registered: 19 October 2009Report This Post
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