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Picture of AirborneDoc
posted
I have a question about the CAB for medics. I'm a medic in an artillery unit and I was in an IED attack three times this deployment. I was put in for a CAB but got denied because I am a medic. Does anyone know the regulation for the eligibility of CAB for medics? I was just curious because from my understanding all soldiers were eligible regardless of their MOS.
 
Posts: 34 | Location: Classified | Registered: 22 October 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of Jeep
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Since you are a medic, it is quite possible that paragraph 2.D may be the reason. you may be eligible for the CMB which I am guessing is the Combat Medical Badge

------------------------

From the Army Institute of Heraldry website:

I. DESCRIPTION: A silver badge 2 inches (5.08cm) in width overall consisting of an oak wreath supporting a rectangle bearing a bayonet surmounting a grenade, all silver. Stars are added at the top to indicate subsequent awards; one star for the second award, two stars for the third award and three stars for the fourth award.



II. SYMBOLISM: In keeping with the spirit of the Warrior Ethos, the Combat Action Badge provides special recognition to Soldiers who personally engage the enemy, or are engaged by the enemy during combat operations. The bayonet and grenade are associated with active combat. The oak wreath symbolizes strength and loyalty.



III. AWARD ELIGIBILITY: The Combat Action Badge (CAB) may be awarded by any commander delegated authority by the Secretary of the Army during wartime or the CG, U.S. Army Human Resources Command and will be announced in permanent orders.



(1) The requirements for award of the CAB are Branch and MOS immaterial. Assignment to a Combat Arms unit or a unit organized to conduct close or offensive combat operations, or performing offensive combat operations is not required to qualify for the CAB. However, it is not intended to award all soldiers who serve in a combat zone or imminent danger area.



(2) Specific Eligibility Requirements:



a. May be awarded to any soldier.



b. Soldier must be performing assigned duties in an area where hostile fire pay or imminent danger pay is authorized.



c. Soldier must be personally present and actively engaging or being engaged by the enemy, and performing satisfactorily in accordance with the prescribed rules of engagement.



d. Soldier must not be assigned/attached to a unit that would qualify the soldier for the CIB/CMB.



(3) May be awarded to members from the other U.S. Armed Forces and foreign soldiers assigned to a U.S. Army unit, provided they meet the above criteria.



(4) Award of the CAB is authorized from 18 September 2001 to a date to be determined. Award for qualifying service in any previous conflict is not authorized.



(5) Subsequent awards:



a. Only one CAB may be awarded during a qualifying period.



b. Second and third awards of the CAB for subsequent qualifying periods will be indicated by superimposing one and two stars respectively, centered at the top of the badge between the points of the oak wreath.



(6) Retroactive awards for the CAB are not authorized prior to 18 September 2001, applications (to include supporting documentation) for retroactive awards of the CAB will be forwarded through the first two star general in the chain of command to CG, U.S. Army Human Resources Command, ATTN: AHRC-PDO-PA, Alexandria, VA 22332-0471.



(7) Wear policy is contained in Army Regulation 670-1.



(8) Soldiers may be awarded the CIB, CMB and CAB for the same qualifying period, provided the criteria for each badge is met. However, subsequent awards of the same badge within the same qualifying period are not authorized.



IV. DATE APPROVED: On 2 May 2005, the Chief of Staff, Army, approved the creation of the CAB to provide special recognition to soldiers who personally engage, or are engaged by the enemy. HQDA Letter 600-05-1, dated 3 June 2005, announced the establishment of the Combat Action Badge.



V. SUBDUED BADGE: Subdued badges are authorized in metal and cloth. The metal badge has a black finish. The cloth badge has olive green base cloth with the bayonet, grenade, oak wreath and border of the bar embroidered in black.



VI. MINIATURE BADGES: A dress miniature badge, 1 1/4 inches (3.18 cm) in length is authorized for wear on the mess uniforms. A miniature badge, 1 3/4 inches (4.45 cm) is also authorized in lieu of the regular size badge.
 
Posts: 199 | Registered: 18 October 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of Jeep
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Look at Paragraph III section (4) about the Combat Medical Badge.

Combat MEDICAL Badge Info:

I. DESCRIPTION: An oxidized silver badge 1 inch in height and 1 ½ inches in width, consisting of a stretcher crossed by a caduceus surmounted at top by a Greek cross, all on and over an elliptical oak wreath. Stars are added to indicate subsequent awards; one star at top for the second award, one star at top and one at bottom for the third award, one star at top and one at each side for the fourth award.

II. SYMBOLISM: The Medical Corps insignia of branch, modified by the addition of a Greek cross suggesting the Geneva Convention between the wings and the entwined serpents, signifies the recipient’s skills and expertise. It is superimposed upon a stretcher alluding to medical field service. The oak symbolizes steadfastness, strength and loyalty.

III. AWARD ELIGIBILITY: The following medical personnel, assigned or attached by appropriate orders to an infantry unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size, or to a medical unit of company or smaller size, organic to an infantry unit of brigade or smaller size, during any period the infantry unit is engaged in actual ground combat are eligible for award of the badge, provided they are personally present and under fire during such ground combat:

(1) Subsequent to 6 December 1941 – Army Medical Department (Colonels and below), the Navy Medical Department (Captains and below), the Air Force Medical Service (Colonels and below), assigned or attached to the Army, who have satisfactorily performed medical duties.

(2) Subsequent to 19 December 1989 – Special Forces personnel possessing military occupational specialty 18D (Special Operations Medical Sergeant) who satisfactorily performed medical duties while assigned or attached to a Special Forces unit during any period the unit is engaged in actual ground combat, provided they are personally present and under fire. Retroactive awards are not authorized.

(3) Subsequent to 16 January 1991 – Personnel outlined in (1) above, assigned or attached to Armor or ground Cavalry units of brigade or smaller size, who satisfactorily performed medical duties while the unit is engaged in actual ground combat, provided they are personally present and under fire. Retroactive awards are not authorized.

(4) Subsequent to 11 September 2001 – Personnel outlined in (1) and (3) above, assigned or attached to or under operational control of any ground Combat Arms units (not to include members assigned or attached to Aviation units) of brigade or smaller size, who satisfactorily performed medical duties while the unit is engaged in actual ground combat provided they are personally present and under fire. Retroactive awards are not authorized.

Awards will not be made to general or flag officers. Specific eligibility requirements by geographic area are listed in Army Regulation 600-8-22.

IV. DATE APPROVED: The Combat Medical Badge was approved on 29 January 1945. In February 1951, the proposal to designate the badge as a one-time award was rescinded and it was approved for subsequent award during specified periods. The addition of stars to indicate subsequent awards was also approved. Policy changes were approved on 12 May 2004, by the Deputy Chief of Staff, G-1.

V. SUBDUED BADGES: Subdued badges are authorized in metal and cloth. The metal badge is black. The cloth badge has an olive green base cloth with the stretcher, caduceus, cross, wreath and stars embroidered in black.

VI. MINIATURE BADGES: A dress miniature badge, 19/32 inch in height is authorized.
 
Posts: 199 | Registered: 18 October 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of AirborneDoc
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d. Soldier must not be assigned/attached to a unit that would qualify the soldier for the CIB/CMB.

I think, that is why my CAB got denied as well. I already have the CMB from OIF I so I was wondering if I could get the CAB this time around. Well, thanks for the info Kilo Six.
 
Posts: 34 | Location: Classified | Registered: 22 October 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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I am a 68wm6, and I do have a CAB...the distinction (thought) was if you actually performed medical duties during the time in question (during attack). Really reading this on here was the first I had read it fully. I know there were many medics in my unit that got the CAB, and I was with a CSH...

I dunno...
 
Posts: 32 | Location: Heidelberg Germany | Registered: 12 May 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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Same here, M6 with a CAB. CMB is for medics who are in direct support of Infantry units. If the soldiers in your unit are getting the CIB, then basically, you would get the CMB.
Medics are authorized the CAB when they would normally have recieved the CMB had they been supporting infantry.
If the soldiers in your artillery unit are getting their CIB, then you should be getting a CMB, not the CAB.
Personally, I would much rather have earned the CMB rather than the CAB, but thats me.
 
Posts: 81 | Registered: 28 July 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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True, I also have a CAB for performing medical aid under fire but becasue I am in an MP unit, no CMB, I would much rather have a CMB
 
Posts: 8 | Location: ft bragg | Registered: 05 May 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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I got my CMB for the orginal push into iraq and my cab for my second tour when I got blown up and still treated the others in the bradley i was in.
 
Posts: 416 | Location: FT Monroe, VA | Registered: 17 March 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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Reference MILPER Message 08-190, dated 22 Jul 08
REVISED CRITERIA FOR AWARDING COMBAT BADGES

Concerning Combat Medical Badges:
CMBs are awarded to, "MEDICAL PERSONNEL ASSIGNED OR ATTACHED TO OR UNDER OPERATIONAL CONTROL OF ANY COMBAT ARMS UNITS OF BRIGADE OR SMALLER SIZE, WHO SATISFACTORILY PERFORM MEDICAL DUTIES WHILE THE UNIT IS ENGAGED IN ACTIVE GROUND COMBAT, PROVIDED THEY ARE PERSONALLY PRESENT AND UNDER FIRE."

Bottom line:

If you are a medic (not just MOS qualified, but in a primary duty position as a medic) assigned, attached, or OPCON to a combat arms unit (not just Infantry), you're eligible for the CMB. If you're eligible for the CMB, you cannot be awarded the CAB under any circumstances.

If you're a medic in a non-combat arms unit, you are only eligible for the CAB, and you cannot receive the CMB under any circumstances.

Also, MILPER Message 08-190 opened up CMB eligibility to medics in Combat Aviation units, retroactive to 18 Sep 01.
 
Posts: 3 | Registered: 22 May 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of AirborneDoc
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Yeah... I got my CMB for the original push into Iraq too as a infantry medic for 173rd. But when I went to Iraq the second time I was with a Field Artillery unit and they said I couldn't get a CAB even though my vehicle got hit by IED numerous times. But I don't care about CAB anymore now that I'm doing flight medic, I don't even wear badges anymore.
 
Posts: 34 | Location: Classified | Registered: 22 October 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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The end all be all of all this information is really a matter of how "cool" a solder wants to look. In my opinion you should never wear more then one combat badge period.. CIB was for infantry... CMB was for medics... and CAB was for everyone else. Trying to bend the rules or figure out how to get two is just ridiculous..

I also served with the 173d for 2 tours and my first one i was awarded a CAB as a soft skill, i reclassed to infantry and subsequently earned my CIB and my EIB... i am currently in training to become an 18D which would then authorize me to be awarded the CMB and EFMB...

If i am awarded another combat badge i would never wear a CIB and an CMB... It just seems very "look at me". Very typical of most people. My favorite part of being here at USAJFKSWC is the fact we dont have to wear our resume on our chest.

People need to start being proud of the things they did and stop worrying about what shiny things they are going to be able to put on their chest.
 
Posts: 1 | Location: vicenza, italy | Registered: 13 June 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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Check out para III. (5) is that still in effect?

I. DESCRIPTION: An oxidized silver badge 1 inch in height and 1 ½ inches in width, consisting of a stretcher crossed by a caduceus surmounted at top by a Greek cross, all on and over an elliptical oak wreath. Stars are added to indicate subsequent awards; one star at top for the second award, one star at top and one at bottom for the third award, one star at top and one at each side for the fourth award.

II. SYMBOLISM: The Medical Corps insignia of branch, modified by the addition of a Greek cross suggesting the Geneva Convention between the wings and the entwined serpents, signifies the recipient’s skills and expertise. It is superimposed upon a stretcher alluding to medical field service. The oak symbolizes steadfastness, strength and loyalty.

III. AWARD ELIGIBILITY: The following medical personnel, assigned or attached by appropriate orders to an infantry unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size, or to a medical unit of company or smaller size, organic to an infantry unit of brigade or smaller size, during any period the infantry unit is engaged in actual ground combat are eligible for award of the badge, provided they are personally present and under fire during such ground combat:

(1) Subsequent to 6 December 1941 – Army Medical Department (Colonels and below), the Navy Medical Department (Captains and below), the Air Force Medical Service (Colonels and below), assigned or attached to the Army, who have satisfactorily performed medical duties.

(2) Subsequent to 19 December 1989 – Special Forces personnel possessing military occupational specialty 18D (Special Operations Medical Sergeant) who satisfactorily performed medical duties while assigned or attached to a Special Forces unit during any period the unit is engaged in actual ground combat, provided they are personally present and under fire. Retroactive awards are not authorized.

(3) Subsequent to 16 January 1991 – Personnel outlined in (1) above, assigned or attached to Armor or ground Cavalry units of brigade or smaller size, who satisfactorily performed medical duties while the unit is engaged in actual ground combat, provided they are personally present and under fire. Retroactive awards are not authorized.

(4) Subsequent to 18 September 2001 – Medical personnel assigned or attached to or under operational control of any ground Combat Arms units (not to include members assigned or attached to Aviation units) of brigade or smaller size, who satisfactorily performed medical duties while the unit is engaged in active ground combat, provided they are personally present and under fire. Retroactive awards are not authorized for service prior to 18 September 2001.

(5) Effective 3 June 2005, soldiers possessing MOS of 18D are no longer eligible for award of the CMB.

Awards will not be made to general or flag officers. Specific eligibility requirements by geographic area are listed in Army Regulation 600-8-22.

IV. DATE APPROVED: The Combat Medical Badge was approved on 29 January 1945. In February 1951, the proposal to designate the badge as a one-time award was rescinded and it was approved for subsequent award during specified periods. The addition of stars to indicate subsequent awards was also approved. Policy changes were approved on 12 May 2004, by the Deputy Chief of Staff, G-1. On 11 February 2005, the Chief of Staff, Army, approved changes to the CMB policy.

V. SUBDUED BADGES: Subdued badges are authorized in metal and cloth. The metal badge is black. The cloth badge has an olive green base cloth with the stretcher, caduceus, cross, wreath and stars embroidered in black.

VI. MINIATURE BADGES: A dress miniature badge, 19/32 inch in height is authorized.

===============================================================



Army Times - June 27, 2005

Special Forces medics now eligible for the CIB
Trading up from Combat Medical Badge

By Sean D. Naylor
Times staff writer

Erasing a long-standing frustration for Special Forces medics, the Army announced June 3 that they will now be awarded the Combat Infantryman Badge rather than the Combat Medical Badge, so long as they meet the criteria.

In addition, SF medics who were awarded the CMB between Sept. 18, 2001, and June 3, 2005, will be allowed to swap their CMB for a CIB.

Historically, only infantrymen and SF soldiers have been eligible for the CIB, but SF medics were excluded and awarded the CMB instead. The SF medics, whose military occupational specialty is 18D, have long complained of being treated like second-class citizens because they received the CMB when everyone else on a 12-man SF A team received the CIB.

Although SF medics are skilled in a variety of medical, dental and veterinary tasks, they also are considered combatants. the two 18Ds on a fully manned A team typically play a full role in engaging enemy forces in combat.

“There’s been a lot of 18 Deltas for many years that have been pushing to be awarded the CIB versus the CMB,” said Col. Gary Longhany, the personnel chief for U.S. Army Special Operations Command. “They felt that they’re operators first and medics second.”

USASOC commander Lt. Gen. Philip Kensinger decided to press for the change after receiving feedback from his subordinate commanders and from SF men in the field.

“The vast majority of our 18 Deltas would have much preferred wearing the CIB instead of the CMB,” Longhany said. “That’s no reflection on the importance of either award. Both awards are worn with honor and pride, but they felt that as a member of an A detachment — our lowest operational detachment — that they wanted to have the CIB first.”

USASOC requested a change in the awards policy from the Department of the Army.

The request was reviewed by the Army G-1, Lt. Gen. Franklin Hagenbeck, and the Army Surgeon General’s Office. “There were some laws that had to be checked,” Longhany said. “There were many different offices within the Pentagon that reviewed this action.”

The approval process was also delayed because of the requests from other Army communities for non-infantry soldiers to be awarded the CIB for infantrylike combat they were experiencing in Iraq. Those discussions resulted in the Army establishing the Combat Action Badge.

The language authorizing the CIB for SF medics is contained in HQDA Letter 600-05-1. The relevant paragraph states:

“Soldiers possessing MOS of 18D (Special Forces Medical Sergeant) who satisfactorily perform special forces duties while assigned or attached to a special forces unit of brigade, regimental, or smaller size during any period such unit is engaged in active ground combat may be awarded the CIB. These soldiers must have been personally present and engaged in active ground combat, to close with and destroy the enemy with direct fires. Retroactive awards under these criteria are not authorized for service prior to 18 September 2001.”

Frank Antenori, an SF medic who retired in July 2004 as a sergeant first class, said he was delighted with the policy change. Antenori, who received a CMB for his actions in the 1991 Persian Gulf War, had been awarded a second CMB for service in Afghanistan in 2002. However, after serving as an acting A-team sergeant during the 2003 invasion of Iraq, Antenori had his second CMB revoked in the hope of being awarded a CIB. (A soldier cannot receive the CIB or the CMB twice during the same period of conflict. For awards purposes, the Army treats the entire period since Sept. 18, 2001, as the one period.)

However, although Antenori had destroyed a moving Iraqi MTLB armored personnel carrier and immobilized a T-55 tank with Javelin missiles during the Battle of Debecka Pass in northern Iraq, the Army had turned down his CIB submission on the grounds that he was still an 18 Delta.

Antenori was incensed. His attitude was: “I’m a trigger puller. Every other trigger-puller is getting a CIB. Why can’t I get one?” He pointed out that SF medics were exempted from the Geneva Convention protections that applied to other medics.

“This [was] so hypocritical it’s not even funny. You say that we don’t have Geneva Convention protections because we’re considered combatants because we kill people, but then you say we can’t get the CIB because we’re medics.”
 
Posts: 1 | Registered: 26 October 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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