This is an interesting thread. Some thoughts:

xJudgex writes:
trying to learn a language in a year is tough, but not impossible. Take the DLAB, that gives you a good idea of your capabilities.

I say: Amen to that. The DLAB is among the most linguistically fascinating and diagnostically accurate standardized tests ever developed. (I studied Linguistics in college and now I work for Kaplan, the standardized test preparation course company.)

Have you taken foreign language in high school? It's practically a prerequisite if you're college-bound (and that includes the college-by-way-of-military route, which is superior). How are your SATs, etc.? Obviously your ASVAB is good enough for MI, so that's a good sign. Standardized tests and foreign languages are in the same family of skill sets - they use the same part of the brain: memory, pattern recognition, etc. So if you test well, you have what it takes to survive DLI.

BUT don't get cocky... even if your brain has what it takes (innate aptitude), you still need to put in "brute force:" hours upon hours of studying, drilling, rote memorization. Every soldier gets a taste of it in Basic, being force-fed the "Smart Book" and, at inspection, being accountable for reciting the book's mundane contents - for example, the General Orders (I will not abandon my post until properly relieved, etc.). In 97E school, we had to memorize the Geneva Conventions! Looking back, I appreciate that requirement.


In response to cowboy's query, xJudgex writes:
97B is in charge of maintaining OpSec, Operational Security. some of the stuff they deal with has to do with things that probably shouldn't be discussed over a public forum.

I say: spoken like a true 97B. You set a good example with your discretion. Although I'm still a "Shark Attack" on this site and don't want to step on any higher-ranking toes, some members are posting sensitive information here. I'm sure it's not intentional. But your ingrained MI "tight lips" get relaxed when you let fingers do the talking, kicking back alone at your desk. Some of the details I've seen here, like systems nomenclature used in a specific MI MOS (MI33W, I'm looking at you)... this is stuff we're trained to "extract" from subjects in interrogation.

So, not to preach, but think before you post. If you were interviewed on CNN, would you be comfortable broadcasting this information? The internet is more accessible than CNN.

Best wishes to all,
Interrogatress

Let's not get holier than thou, Interrogatress. It ain't "sensitive" if its published openly by the US Army in the MIPB and on Go Army.com, with even more detail available on US Military About.com and, of course, plenty of documents on FAS. MI33W didn't disclose anything that isn't already all over a wide variety of open source media. You have to find that line between discretion and paranoia.

[quote:2420c9a09d]So if you test well, you have what it takes to survive DLI.[/quote:2420c9a09d]
Not necessarily. Plenty of kids with high DLAB scores rock out of their language - the average attrition rate at DLI still hovers around 50% - and everybody who comes here passed the DLAB, to one extent or another. Of course, some of'em get recycled, and others get relanguaged into a lower category language. But that only happens if slots are available - and they've been pretty tight lately.

Don't take anything for granted.

Jedburgh: I wasn't aware of those websites describing the systems named by MI33W. His post seemed a little more detailed than necessary to counsel a new recruit considering the MI branch. But your point is well-taken, so I apologize to MI33W and the group.

As for the correlation between DLAB score and DLI success... I stand by my argument that if your brain is "wired" with the innate aptitude necessary to kick butt on the DLAB, then you have sufficient "hardware" to survive DLI intellectually...

...BUT whether you APPLY that hardware at DLI is up to you. As Jedburgh points out, there are plenty of soldiers with high DLAB scores who flunk DLI. There are some with lower DLAB scores (who barely squeaked in to qualify for MI) who finish head of the class.

External factors can impede you from successfully applying your natural born language aptitude: stress, social distractions such as romance, too much partying, etc. Or one could just get cocky, lazy, lose motivation, etc.

I think those outside factors are to blame for the high attrition rate. To pass the DLAB, you must have it in you... to graduate from DLI, you must put it out, put it to the test. "Like gold that's tested in fire..." that's a Bible verse, I can't remember which one. Dang, I've got to go Google it now or it will nag me forever.

Anyway, Jedburgh, sincere thanks for the correction and the tip about those websites. I guess everyone has a different opinion of what is sensitive information and what isn't. I must be paranoid.

-Interrogatress
"Acting Holier Than Thou Since 31 OCT 04"

Its easy to blame outside factors. But that isn't the whole story. Although the DLAB is a good basic test of innate abilities, it ain't perfect. Standardized tests are just what the term implies - a general assessment, with both the strengths and failings that go along with such "generalization".

I have had soldiers with high DLAB scores who work their ass off, study the extra hours, work with a tutor and still fail, despite all the extra effort. Others party every night in downtown Monterey, barely study at all, and pass the course with ease. Sometimes a failing soldier will do very well after a relanguage - and its not always into a lower category. (i.e. from Arabic - a Cat IV, to Spanish - a Cat I). I've seen people rock out of Arabic and do well in Chinese - both Cat IVs - and vice versa.

Language is definitely a different sort of innate ability - and everyone is very different. The DLAB only catches part of that.

[quote:4ff6153282]I guess everyone has a different opinion of what is sensitive information and what isn't.[/quote:4ff6153282]
What is "sensitive information" shifts and changes with the operational dynamic. It ain't the Cold War anymore, and we're not involved in an arms race - or a race in development of collection systems - with a technologically equivalent enemy. Haven't been for a while. There is far more information publically available regarding all such military systems than there was pre-1990.

The same thing goes for troop movements in combat. Unit designations, troop strengths, length of deployment are all details that are published and discussed openly in the general media. Casualty numbers are reported with specific unit designations. Hell, many units have their own websites where they openly publish such detail.

These days, the only info that can't be readily found is classified or FOUO. And you'd be surprised how much of that can be discovered. Not the specific classified reporting - you won't find that - but much of the detail contained within.

CI as regards OPSEC is a real challenge these days - and information being posted carelessly on the 'net is only a small part of it. One thing that really bothered me throughout the CENTCOM AOR was seeing individuals downloading from SIPR onto uncontrolled and unmarked thumb drives and sharing within their units with absolutely no tracking of classified info. And lets not forget the politically driven releases of classified info - not just in the classic manner of the traitor feeding info to the enemy, but in today's information age - a disgruntled soldier feeding info to a media or activist source.

just to weigh in on the infosec subject.....

just because something isn't stamped with classifications doesn't mean you shouldn't be tight-lipped about it anyway......

did your parents tell you about sex at 3? I sure hope not. probably because you weren't ready, and didn't "need to know."

you'll find out about all that you need to know in due time.

not trying to come down on anyone, but pieces of information add up.

/my two cents.

As far as DLI goes, If you cant hang on a tougher language, you get a shot at an easier one. But they'll go off your DLAB scores. Good luck on your career, and drive on....

SGT Rod

Always Out Front Gaarrrrrr!!

Currently 98K and 98J have been joined into either 98Y and 98C. however Neither MOS has ever required a language. I am a former 98K turned 98Y so i think i have a little experience in this matter.

quote:

Originally posted by interrogatress:
This is an interesting thread. Some thoughts:

xJudgex writes:
trying to learn a language in a year is tough, but not impossible. Take the DLAB, that gives you a good idea of your capabilities.

I say: Amen to that. The DLAB is among the most linguistically fascinating and diagnostically accurate standardized tests ever developed. (I studied Linguistics in college and now I work for Kaplan, the standardized test preparation course company.)

Have you taken foreign language in high school? It's practically a prerequisite if you're college-bound (and that includes the college-by-way-of-military route, which is superior). How are your SATs, etc.? Obviously your ASVAB is good enough for MI, so that's a good sign. Standardized tests and foreign languages are in the same family of skill sets - they use the same part of the brain: memory, pattern recognition, etc. So if you test well, you have what it takes to survive DLI.

BUT don't get cocky... even if your brain has what it takes (innate aptitude), you still need to put in "brute force:" hours upon hours of studying, drilling, rote memorization. Every soldier gets a taste of it in Basic, being force-fed the "Smart Book" and, at inspection, being accountable for reciting the book's mundane contents - for example, the General Orders (I will not abandon my post until properly relieved, etc.). In 97E school, we had to memorize the Geneva Conventions! Looking back, I appreciate that requirement.


In response to cowboy's query, xJudgex writes:
97B is in charge of maintaining OpSec, Operational Security. some of the stuff they deal with has to do with things that probably shouldn't be discussed over a public forum.

I say: spoken like a true 97B. You set a good example with your discretion. Although I'm still a "Shark Attack" on this site and don't want to step on any higher-ranking toes, some members are posting sensitive information here. I'm sure it's not intentional. But your ingrained MI "tight lips" get relaxed when you let fingers do the talking, kicking back alone at your desk. Some of the details I've seen here, like systems nomenclature used in a specific MI MOS (MI33W, I'm looking at you)... this is stuff we're trained to "extract" from subjects in interrogation.

So, not to preach, but think before you post. If you were interviewed on CNN, would you be comfortable broadcasting this information? The internet is more accessible than CNN.

Best wishes to all,
Interrogatress

Ummm...also MI here and the information put out is easily accessible on the internet and is unclassified. so at ease the cockiness, or start calling people out on true intel oversights!

I have to agree with mikeorswim on this. the internet is full of information. A quick search for military equipment fact files will reveal lots of information about military equipment. the government is very good about classifying information so that it is not released to those that should not have access to it. As MI you are well aware of the classifications.

This forum has been online in one form or another for almost 4 years now and we have had our share of true OPSEC violations or attempted violations. Everything from "hey, here are soe photos of Forward Operating Base ____ so that you know what it is like when you get here" to "I am with ______ unit and we will be deploying out fo Fort Hood on March 21st, 2004 from such and such airfield."

This forum has a very good system in place for reporting posts that are both vulgar and a possible violation of OPSEC. it is the policy of this site to remove any post that is considered a possible OPSEC violation without quesion. Kind of a better safe than sorry deal.

Yes it is good to stay on top of people, but if there is a problem with a post, the best way to handle it would be to use the reporting system which can be found in the menu for reporting the post. We will take care of the rest.

This community forum is very secure and we have a lot of flexibility as to what we can do with it. I guess that is why it costs so much darn money to use per month.

This site and it's forum have been scrubbed by many people that were looking for something to try to start problems with. Someone threatened to file an EO complaint about a cadence because it did not mention females (that was stupid) and a National Guard LT took it upon himself to try to get us for having a classified powerpoint presentation on the site. the presentation was not "classified" and was clearly marked unclassified. I guess he had good intentions, I still don't know why exactly he thought it was classified.