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Possibly no graduation due to knee injury
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posted
I have attempted to research this issue in the forum and found things a little fuzzy, I am hoping that some wise people might be able to clarify things for me.

My son is nearing the end of 68W AIT training at FSH. All has been good, great even. He has a 93% average (just shy of honor grad, or he would have been), all "gos" on skills, always passed APFT, no disciplinary issues of any kind. His weight is perfect, never a concern. He is a very fine soldier.

He felt his knee "pop" a little during PT prior to Christmas exodus. He tried to work through it and it was really hurting, he finally went in and got seen at sick call. His meniscus seemed inflamed but they didn't think it was a tear. He was put on no-running profile and the timing was actually good since he could rest it over the break. He was home for two weeks and with mom watching over him only did situps/pushups and completely rested the knee. He took his NSAIDS and was compliant all instructions. It seemed better. As a former swimmer/water polo player his knees have never bothered him and this whole thing looked like a fluke. He returned to AIT and was then doing up/downhill runs of some kind and bam, hurt it again. It is very painful.

His platoon sergeant told him to either suck it up or go back to medical and not graduate as the Army has plenty of soldiers and doesn't need ones who can't run. He tried gutting it out for a day or so and finally caved and went in to be seen. Still same diagnosis. He begged the doctor, saying he just wants to graduate with his class,and the doctor wrote out two things: "Use prior diagnostic APFT run score" and "run at own pace". So my son was hopeful.
He went back and gave document to his platoon sergeant who said it was unacceptable to have both of those directions written as they are contradictory and he had better have his !%& up at 0400 in the morning to take the APFT that was scheduled. Of course, he reported for that, passed the situps/pushups and was instructed him NOT to run, with no further explanation or conversation. He was again hopeful!

Later that day -- they put him on the list as a PT failure. He was told to pass the record APFT that is in one week OR return to sick call and expect to not graduate and be held over in Hotel company with all the "fatty" PT failures. HIs choice. And that he can just plan on being chaptered out with a "failure to meet physical standards" separation. So we are just praying hard his knee heals, not sure what else to do, he feels called to serve and will not consider going back to medical after being told it will be the end.

This seems illogical but don't want to debate that -- I guess I am looking for confirmation that if he does not pass next week he is truly done for. I will need to get my head around that so I can be supportive in helping him move forward. I am encouraging him to continue to keep his head down, work hard, and stay mentally tough. He is devasted, though. This is the first time I have ever seen him stop believing in himself. Again with the logic: he is injured! He is not fat, lazy, or otherwise unskilled! What am I missing here? Any insight would be so appreciated.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: momof68w,
 
Posts: 7 | Registered: 22 January 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of sprat2
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This is shady to say the least. You son has not failed a pt test and they are threatening to chapter him. He needs to go to the doctor and get to the root of the problem. He may not graduate when he wants to but he is truly hurt he needs to get fixed. Now if he just wants to graduate and go to his unit then he just needs to suck it up. I would vote for the first option and get fixed. They cannot chapter him out just for being hurt. Now if he tries to take a pt test and fails that is a different story. Bottom line he needs to go to the doctor and try to get an MRI if not structural damage then just rest. Follow the profile to a tee. If it is for 30 days then he will not be able to take a pt test for 60 days. Tell your son to not be stubborn and see a doctor. If his PSG continues to be shady there avenues that you can explore. Good luck and keep us informed of the situation.
 
Posts: 260 | Location: Macdill AFB | Registered: 21 April 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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Thank you very much for the reply. I asked him about this, but he says he has been told he IS a PT failure. And is told that if he goes to medical for any further workup, he will be chaptered out. He says the only way he can win is to pass the run next week. The other two situations are losing ones.

I said exactly what you say above "they cannot chapter you out for being hurt".

BTW, he says he can tough out everything still to come before graduation, kneeling on it in trauma lanes, etc., doesn't feel good but he can do it. It is the running that is the worst. He dismissed me as not understanding the realities of the situation and that was the end of our phone call. I will be lucky if I speak to him again inside of a week.

He is only 18 years old for God's sake, I really don't want him to ruin his knee.

I hold on to some kind of bizarre hope that they are just trying to keep him mentally strong by not giving him any excuses. Could they be doing that? Although since he has not been a problem in any way...I just don't get it.
 
Posts: 7 | Registered: 22 January 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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As shady as it sounds..it is correct..all soldiers must pass an APFT to gradute from AIT.. faiuler to do so will mean he will not grduate..he will be placed in a hold over company where he will be evaluated..if it is determined with a little bit of time he will heal (a week or two) he will gradute with the next class...if it will take more time..then he will be chapterd from the army...the best thing to do is to got to the DOCs and have them fix it...even if he is chapterd they will still fix his leg...it would suck to be chapterd out..but his only options are to Pass the PT test and move on..or not pass and hope for the best..


SFC T
 
Posts: 161 | Registered: 21 August 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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"all soldiers must pass an APFT to graduate from AIT"

I want to clarify, he has passed his APFT, he has passed every single one in BCT and AIT until becoming injured.

It seems shameful that any soldier, especially a good one, will be chaptered out if they have anything wrong with them that takes more than a week or two to fix? Something they did not have prior to enlistment, and that they received as a direct result of training and not from their own negligence or carelessness.
 
Posts: 7 | Registered: 22 January 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of 11BIN3ID
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He may have passed a diagnostic pt test, but they dont matter, only record pt tests matter. If he hasnt passed a record pt test he will be recycled or chaptered.
 
Posts: 991 | Registered: 12 November 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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Well, I would think at least one of his tests during all these months would have been a record one, but I don't know and am not sure I'll speak to him soon. He is a big boy and will figure it out. I just wanted to be well-informed.

I appreciate the replies but I definitely feel discouraged.
 
Posts: 7 | Registered: 22 January 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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I agree it sucks..and it a jacked up system a good soldier has passed at lest 4 PT test by this time..gets hurt due to training..and is eather chapterd or recycled...but he must pass his end of course PT test to graduate.if anything is wrong with him..the army will fix any problem..he recived while in the army.


SFC T
 
Posts: 161 | Registered: 21 August 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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What sounds shady to me is big baby running to his mom telling her a one sided story and mommy coming onto the forum fighting for her little angel as if she has a clue to what kind of Soldier he is, his reputation in AIT, or how "skilled" or well he has been performing.

Its a sad story, I guess, but a BCT or AIT is not going to release a Soldier to another unit if he/she is not going to be able to perform his/her duties to their fullest ability, get over it.

Your son is training to be a Combat Medic, but everytime he runs his knee pops and he's in pain. Sounds like he is going to have trouble running around in combat, aiding his Soldiers, wearing his aid-bag, and his gear. Pretty useless.

Who told you your son was potentially, the "honor grad" of his class? I don't know if you know this but 9 times out of 10, in military schools a 90% avg is the norm, while the honor grad and distinguish honor grad have dame near perferct scores, I'm just saying.
 
Posts: 468 | Registered: 08 November 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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Wow, Barbarian you are a real sweetie, thanks for the friendliness.
Is asking a question and looking for information "fighting for my little angel"?
I didn't say he was going to be THE "honor grad", did you not read my post? I was not told by anyone that he was an honor grad just by the commander's graduation letter that top 10% would be honor grads. He would have missed that top 10% by a bit but still good results.
I am a really nice person who thought I could get some info, the wrong person to be hanging out here, clearly.
Y'all have a real lovely evening.
 
Posts: 7 | Registered: 22 January 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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quote:
Originally posted by momof68w:
He has a 93% average (just shy of honor grad, or he would have been.



Did you read your post?

I know you don't know any better mom, but usually there is a

Distinguished Honor Graduate (top graduate)

Honor Graduate (runner up to DHG)

and Commadant's List or those graduating with honors (the top 10%)

It's just always funny to me when parents and wives come on here talking up their significant other as if they are the greatest thing since sliced bread and the truth is you really don't know.
 
Posts: 468 | Registered: 08 November 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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Yep, well I suppose I have my terms wrong, it is graduating with honors he would have just missed. Again with the meanness. I do think he is great, glad you think that's funny. I don't think he deserves special treatment. I was just trying to get info.

Right now, I am trying to figure out how to delete my account/profile, since this is not place for me. My skin is nowhere thick enough! You seem to know a lot -- if you know how I can do that please pass it on.

Thanks.
 
Posts: 7 | Registered: 22 January 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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You don't have to delete it, just log off and get to knitting me a sweater. Hurry up!
 
Posts: 468 | Registered: 08 November 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post



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Thanks Barbarian for your tactful dealings with our new member.

Mom, he does make a valid point in his crude way. What we have is a telling of a story from the point of view of a brand new private as interpreted by a civilian.

This is not the first time we have seen this sort of thing, and we know that the facts can be easily misinterpreted out of nothing more sinister than inexperience.

Almost everyone on this board has been to basic training, and we remember how ignorant we were on the ways of the Army.

For the APFT, my understanding is that all of them in such schools are diagnostic, including the final.

I've met a number of people who were separated from IET for similar conditions (broken foot, broken hip). Temporary conditions in an IET environment can lead to discharge. I suspect his cadre may be aware of this and are trying to get him through it so that he can stay in the Army and hopefully fix it later on. If he is so separated, his chances of having an Army career drop dramatically. This is not the case with IET graduates, but for those who have yet to complete training the tolerance is low.


This is a ten level task
 
Posts: 2870 | Registered: 15 February 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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quote:
Who told you your son was potentially, the "honor grad" of his class? I don't know if you know this but 9 times out of 10, in military schools a 90% avg is the norm, while the honor grad and distinguish honor grad have dame near perferct scores, I'm just saying.


I'd like to know where you pulled these numbers from. Your ass is what I assume.

90% Averages are the norm? Near perfect scores for honor grad? B.S.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Daddy Warcrimes,
 
Posts: 275 | Registered: 17 February 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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