quote:

Originally posted by Combatdoc7ID:
If we look at this positively, the reason for the extention was not made to keep us deployed longer but to ensure a 12 month home stay. At least someone is thinking about us and our families. A small gesture is better then no gesture.

You must watch CNN or AFN alot.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a very political person and couldn't care less who is my Commander-in-Chief, but when someone makes a mistake, an apology may be in order (sometimes) and then adjust fire and then get on a course that will make things better; don't just "stay the course".

President Bush is a man. We all make mistakes. We all have advisors to some degree (parents, friends, colleagues, etc..) and we make decisions based off what information/beliefs we have or are given. If I was repeadedly provided inaccurate information, I'd get rid of that advisor or simply not take them seriously any longer.

We have been promised many things over the past 5 or 6 years, but very little has come true... shorter deployments, 24 months back at home, more pay for extended tours, just to name a few.

The real question you should be asking is why did we surge?

1 - We had to surge and quell the violence which sprung last year (2006) from the golden mosque in Samarra being destroyed.

2 - We had to move to 15 months because lets face it the surge took away units, who in the regular cycle would have replaced those currently serving and not part of the surge.

Yeah it sucks but I put on this uniform and signed that line along with many other servicemembers.

Ultimately it boils down to the old concept of "you broke it you buy it."

If 15 month rotations here get the job done quicker count me in for another OIF.

Remember in WW2 they did a few years so I'd like to think that unless they decide to go 24 months I'm lucky with 15.

The only thing that get's me is that there is no plan, just quelling the violence will not solve the problem. We need to come up with a plan that each sect can live in peace with it. I don't have all the answers but I do know it took many many years for the USA to quell a lot of it's differences with race, and religion, and on many levels we are still working on it. We expect these people to get along and live in peace, with only a 4 short years to heal. This healing process will take a long time, maybe generations. So are we staying that long. I have said it once and I will say it again, they are fighting a civil war and we are in the way. Let them fight it out and when they have gotten out all there anger, we can come in and help them rebuild. So the surge was pointless we have no quelled anything.

"Take only what you can carry"...Lightfigher!

I'm sure people felt the same way in the late 40s when they thought going into Germany was a dumb idea after the country was defeated.

And if you think we've not quelled anything look at Anbar province. Ramadi used to be the most dangerous city in Iraq and it's currently on an upward swing for the better.

The surge has had some positive effects. I could throw some number at you if you want to see how the surge has affected the area around here.

I am currently in Iraq and took a late RnR, thank god! I don't know if they are doing this for some soldiers on other FOB's but if they took an early RnR (first 90 days) they are giving them a pass to Qatar. I know it's not much but at least they are trying. This problem is truely out of our hands, just roll with it. I am going through a divorce and I am also without my 4 year old son, but this is the job we are in and the sacrafices you need to be ready to make, nobody said it was easy. If you read your TCS orders you will see where it says up to 18 months...why is this such a surprise to people?

Still missing the point, we have not quelled anything. I spent the last year in Ramadi and it always had it's ups and downs, mostly downs. If you look at the numbers we have just moved the violence to the smaller outer towns. Once we settle down, it will all start again. We have not solved anything by the "surge". Once again you reference WWII, and once again I must say there is no correlation between the two wars. WWII, we found countries and defeated countries. After the war we helped build and protect a country. OIF, we are not fighting countries but small groups. We defeated the country of Iraq in 2003, but found ourself in a war that we didn't expect. We are not fighting the same force we fought in 2003. This force is well trained and ready for a fight, we are sitting around with our thumbs up our 4 points of contact hoping they will go home and things will get better. It is like a oil spill that you can not get to soak up, you keep wiping it up but all you are doing is moving it around the floor. All we are doing is moving the force from one location to another. We are not defeating it.

Now I must ask what is the plan. No one knows, what are our goals. If it is to make a government and a country that can stand on it's own, we will be there for 100s of years. We have the power to move this mess all around Iraq but I don't think we can solve there internal problems.

I am a Soldier, NCO, and Medic, so I will be there again, but make no mistakes I am not there for the people of Iraq, I am there to ensure that everyone comes home or at least everyone I can save, lead, or train. The only people that can help Iraq is the Iraqi people. They need to stand up and grow up and put the past behind them and forge forward to make Iraq great again. Since that will never happen, we can not ever win.

Lightfighter

spoken like a true cynic.

If you want to trumpet around like Harry Reid be my guest but have some respect for the people over here that are fighting and dying for freedom.

Not just our own country, but Iraq's freedom as well is at stake in this conflict.

It's a whole lot easier to argue but harder to try and offer a solution to the problem.

But really now, It seems all you really have done is complain and cry unfair.

Well some of us out here living in COPs, JCCs, FOBs, and Camps value what we do here because dang it we're trying to set things right.

Yeah we could let Iraqis who have little training, and were formerly oppressed for the LAST 40 YEARS go about their merry way but would you honestly leave someone hanging like that?

Imagine if someone came, took over, and ruled with a more iron fist than Saddam? (like Iran or Syria)

And really the only difference between this war and World War II was that we had help. We're not so lucky this time because people are afraid, or to high nosed to help those in need.

But then again Europe is usually good for that sort of thing -- you could always move to France.

quote:

Originally posted by Jenny:


WOW, this is like comparing apples to oranges. So not alike for so many reasons.

Many soldiers died in WW2, yes, but this is how this is different. During that time, America came out of the Great Depression and during the war became the greatest power in the world, over 12 Million jobs were created, the economy picked up at a high rate, and the war lasted from 1941 to 1945 (4 years). Japan surrendered.

Iraq - Bush failed to find WOMD, is constantly linking 9/11 to Iraq, while calling the war "OIF", the economy is not doing so great, the rest of the world does not like us,the gas prices have trippled, but Exxon/Moble is making about $360 BIL PROFIT, unepmployment rates are way higher, constantly hear about job cuts, this war is costing an incredible amount of money, it's in its 5th year with very little accoplished.

Yeah, I am not a happy camper....Bush et. al did not plan this as they should have.

We also dropped 2 atomic bombs in Japan and destroyed half of Europe in the process.

As far as Iraq you are wrong about the WMD and 9/11. We found 1.6 tons of enriched uranium (curiously enough from Nigeria but that didn't happen either), centrifuges, chemical weapons, and vast amounts of anthrax (I guess the agriculture department at Bagdad U needed it). The President never said Saddam had anything to do with 9/11. He said that since 9/11 we need to take a proactive approach to those that harbor terrorists. Saddam sent money to the families of suicide bombers (terrorists) in Palestine.

The economy is at an all time high in our countries history. Look at the stock market!

As far as the world not liking us, the world never liked us because after WWII we were the Western Superpower and told the other western countries what to do. The eastern countries hated us because we kept them from doing whatever they wanted. That was our burden for becoming the superpower. They have resented us for that for years.

Gas prices have ALMOST doubled, but it is still less than the 70's inflation.

But since all of your statements are taken directly from left leaning bobble headed talking points you probably won’t listen to this so good luck.

I have been to both Afghanistan and Iraq, and can relate to people feeling both ways.
However, DoubleDuece is right.
The SF guys would talk about chemical agents in mortar rounds. The terrorists launch those into a populated area and thousands could be dead in a hour.
That is a weapon of mass-destruction, because it kills lots of people.
There was uranium there, because I had to guard one of the RAD sites for some time and we were constantly screened by medical personnel for how much radiation we were encountering until the special teams could arrive and take the stuff out of there.
Whether Bush is over there for oil or not, who cares.
Saddam was killing hundreds of thousands, just like warlords do in Africa, and it was about damn time we stepped in and did something about it.
Regardless of where murder happens, it is still murder and as defenders of freedom, both our and the rest of the world's, we did the right thing....we did the only thing.
Should we pull out?
Yes, and soon, but not before making the rest of the UN pull up their boot straps and assist us with readying the Iraqis for the struggle they face ahead.
I heard several times the Bush administration linking Al Qaeda to Iraq on the news, but never linking Saddam to 9/11, as far as I remember.
However, now that Al Qaeda is there now, it doesn't really matter, now does it?

This will be the last time I try to educate CA about WWII and OIF. WWII was well underway before we entered the war. Europe was begging us to help but FDR felt it was not in our best interest to send troops, so we sent money, weapons and even a few volunteers. But being the smart president, he had a PLAN, if we where forced into the war how would we handle it. Pearl Harbor, bla bla bla...(read history book, to find out how it came out). After the War, the Europian people stood up and said, we're going to be great again. They pulled together and rebuild there countries. There was even reports of German people cleaning there towns before we even left.

OK, Iraq 2007, we have been there for 4 years + and the people have said nothing to help themselves all they have done is slap the hand that is trying to help. Iraq Police protest us outside there station (people that we have trained and armed). I personnally was invovled in helping resupply a hospital with medication, equipment and training. No more than a week later the people in the hospital stole the equipment and sold it. For personnel gain! Yes, I have met some really good Iraq people but most of them want a hand-out not to work for themselves. We protect them while they protest against us. You want me to have respect for them, well respect is earned here, I do not feel sorry for people that do not help themselves, and fight over 100 year old issues about who got a bigger scoop of icecream. They don't care if Iraq is better, they care about themselves and you go over there and fight for them? I have seen the Iraq army put down there weapons and just go home, when they where told they would be going to Ramadi, these Soldier, I am suppost to respect?

You justify us going into Iraq because they supplied teriorism but if you remember Pres Bush named the three countries to the Axis of Evil, I think he called them. Iraq, N. Korea, and Iran. N. Korea will have nukes just like Iran, but we can us diplomacy on these countries, but Iraq a country that we have had sancions on for over 10 years and we know is in ruin, we have to invade this one and leave the others alone. Come on, I have seen nieve people before but damn!

This war was started because he wanted to finish what Daddy didn't. He wanted history to say that. He was told that there might be WOMD and that was good enough. Saddam did what 100s of rulers have done throughout the course of history and what ruler around the world are doing today (N. Korea, Africa, ect) and we are not planning a full scale invasion on those countries. Why because we have nothning to gain, especially the President.

To quickly address the WOMD comment, a well placed 105 HE round can kill 100s of people but it doesn't make it a WOMD. When we talk WOMD we are talking about a weapon that can take out one of our city with one shot. FYI.

I have served in Iraq for 25 months total time. I am a medic and trying not to exagrate I have treated over 500, Iraq people and Soldiers. I was the NCOIC of a large Ground Evacuation team that moved Soldiers and Iraqs around Baddagh and help write the mass casualty plan for Ramadi and the surrounding area in 2005-2006. There we had two mass casualty mostly Iraq Police and Soldiers. I have deployed and will deploy again, but I said it once and I will say it again, I am there because of out troops not for the Iraq people. I have no dillusion that their history book will protray us heroes it will say that we were invaders and occupiers, not as saviors. I would never nor have I have mal treated another human being nor will I in the future but I know and I accept that we are not going to save these people. They have to save themselves before we can.

This is the reason why other countries are not invovled in this they can see it why can we?

This is not complaining or whining, it is the truth, most don't want to hear this because they might feel that giving their life is not worth this. But I say it is worth protecting the Soldier next to you. We are Soldiers not Politians and we can not think like a Politians, we have a think like a Soldier and for me like a medic. I think as long as Soldiers are not at home, I will go and defend them and do my best to bring them home. Don't care why they are not home, just they need to come home. You might say that is stupid not to educate yourself on the issues, I didn't say not to educate yourself but if you are going to be a Soldier your own personnel beliefs must be put aside. Mine are. I am a Soldier and will go where my brothers go.

Lightfighter!

quote:

Originally posted by Jenny:

quote:

Originally posted by Daddy Warcrimes:
I'm a Soldier. I go where I'm told, when I'm told, for as long as I'm told. It sucks to be away from the family, but if that's what the mission requires, so be it. Accomplishment of my mission is the first of my responsibilities.

Perspective:

War on terror:

9-11 American deaths: 2,819

• US military deaths: 3,653 (Iraq and Afghanistan)
  
• Current US population: about 300 million
  
• 0.0012% of the population
  

WWII:

Pearl Harbor: 2,388 American deaths

• US military deaths: 407,300
  
• 1939 US population: 131,028,000
  
• 0.31% of the population
  

WOW, this is like comparing apples to oranges. So not alike for so many reasons.

Many soldiers died in WW2, yes, but this is how this is different. During that time, America came out of the Great Depression and during the war became the greatest power in the world, over 12 Million jobs were created, the economy picked up at a high rate, and the war lasted from 1941 to 1945 (4 years). Japan surrendered.

Iraq - Bush failed to find WOMD, is constantly linking 9/11 to Iraq, while calling the war "OIF", the economy is not doing so great, the rest of the world does not like us,the gas prices have trippled, but Exxon/Moble is making about $360 BIL PROFIT, unepmployment rates are way higher, constantly hear about job cuts, this war is costing an incredible amount of money, it's in its 5th year with very little accoplished.

Yeah, I am not a happy camper....Bush et. al did not plan this as they should have.

I have to disagree with on some of these matters about Iraq. Yes, I do agree that the Bush Administration hasn't been the best at managing this war with all of the "wmd" claims and other claims, but the country sure isn't surfering as much as you think. For example.. just like WW2, the economy is doing really good. http://data.bls.gov/PDQ/servlet/SurveyOutputServlet?dat...eries_id=LNS14000000
That's the link that shows that unemployment rate is the lowest it's been since the "Clinton Days" so obviously this war is helping the economy whether we want to believe it or not. I don't agree with these repeditive extensions and being away as this has turned many Soldiers away from the Army. BUT... in the end.. ANY war helps the economy especially America. As for gas prices, that's a whole different ball game and if it wasn't for everyone driving those gas guzzling SUV's around, then gas might not be so expensive. Supply and Demand...