quote:

Originally posted by MSG-Smith:
I will give you that the regulation is not clear on the saluting an officer in PT gear, but do we agree that you do not salute the raising of the flag in PT gear?

No. Not at all. Not even close. Zilch. Zero. Nada. Sefr (zero in Farsi).

If this is what you are going by:

4. Military personnel and civilians in civilian
dress without headgear. Personnel engaged
in sports and attired in a sports uniform without headdress.

Refer to my last post. You aren't ENGAGED in anything during the flag raising. If your formation is running, no you don't salute. If you're all standing around with your hands on your you-know-whats then you salute. No question. There is no ambiguity there whatsoever.

It's pretty simple:

Engaged - "actively or fully engaged or occupied"

If you aren't actively or fully engaged in doing physical training (i.e. - standing around waiting for formation) you salute. Period.

You will salute in uniform. Is the PT uniform not a UNIFORM?? I always have saluted, if not ENGAGED in PT while in PT's.

Where are you MSG Smith that you don't salute the flag in the morning at FLAG CALL. I have been in several posts, for different reasons and let me tell you get cause simply walking through flag call with out rendering the proper customs and courtesies, AR 600-25 (below is straight from this site)

What are the courtesies rendered by individuals during Reveille if they are in uniform and not in formation either with or without headgear?

1. At the first note of music, face flag and render hand salute (if flag is not in view, face direction of music).
2. End salute on last note of music.

What are the courtesies rendered by individuals during Retreat and To the Color if they are in uniform and in formation either with or without headgear?

1. At the first note of Retreat, execute "Parade Rest" at the command of the officer or NCO in charge. Remain at Parade Rest until given "Attention" by officer or NCO in charge.
2. At the first note of To the Color, execute "Present Arms" at the command of officer or NCO in charge. Execute "Order Arms" at the command of officer or NCO in charge.

What are the courtesies rendered by individuals during Retreat and To the Color if they are in uniform and not in formation either with or without headgear?

1. At the first note of Retreat, face flag and stand at attention (if flag is not in view, face direction of music). Remain at attention until last note of "TO THE COLOR" has been played.
2. At the first note of To the Color: If outdoors, render hand salute; if indoors, stand at attention. Hold this position until the last note of music has been played.

Ok so it does not say in the PT Uniform but I have always seen PT start after Reveille and it is a company formation and YOU DO SALUTE THE FLAG!! I have not been to every post in the Army, not even close but I have seen what happens if you do not salute. Heck you can even get in trouble if caught driving, with loud music so that you can't hear flag call. Not good, honor the American Flag!! It takes a few minutes out of your day, personally deal with it, we fight for it everyday, we have faught for it over the years, give it the respect it is due, but that's my opinion. If I disrespect you with that opinion I am sincerely sorry, but it's again an opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by MSG-Smith:
I will give you that the regulation is not clear on the saluting an officer in PT gear, but do we agree that you do not salute the raising of the flag in PT gear?

NO, we do not agree...you are telling me that every post in the Army is doing the wrong thing by saluting the flag during PT formation? I think if you are the one wrong...

Thanks MSG!!!!!!!!!!!
I will be sure to tell my 1SG that the whole company is wrong. And that the way they been doing things is out of reg.

Salute when in uniform, and stand at attention when walking in civilian gear. If we are doing a sports day for work that day and are in civilians, we still salute, as we are in our duty uniform.

Always salute in uniform, no matter what the duty uniform is. Even if it is PT's

Ok for those who are not catching on...

AR 600-25 para 1-5b:

b. All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute.
Salutes will be exchanged between officers (commissioned and warrant) and enlisted personnel, and with personnel of
the Armed Forces of the United States (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard), the commissioned corps
of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and the commissioned corps of the Public Health Service
entitled to the salute.

Ar 670-1 Chapter 14 states that the Physical Fitness (PT)uniform is a military uniform. If you refer back to the top where it says,"All Army personnel in uniform are required to salute when they meet and recognize persons entitled to the salute." The only times you do not salute is clearly stated as well in AR 600-25 para 1-5i.

Now for saluting the flag:

AR 600-25 Apendix C tables C-1 items 1 and 2 state what to do to render honors to the flag when in uniform, headgear or not, formation or not. There is a clear definition between sports attire and the PT Uniform. In the same appendix it states in item 3: All men wearing
civilian clothes (military and civilian)includes sports attire with headgear).(Note 3)in Item 4 it states: Military personnel
and civilians in civilian dress without headgear. Personnel engaged in sports and attired in a sports uniform without headdress.

The SPORTS uniform they are refering to are uniforms like softball and football that you would play with your unit and thus have a uniform for. Some of these have headgear, some don't. This has what you need to do in both situations. Basically it boils down to this:
READ THE REGULATIONS!!!! Not just the part you want either, all of it.

MSG-Smith
After reading the regulation I think you are wrong about not saluting at the raising of the flag. A PT uniform is not a sport uniform. The PT uniform is a Military uniform. A sport uniform could be a football jersey or softball uniform that you or people in your unit might wear during sport or team events.

Yes you salute in pt's because it is a military uniform, no you do not salute in sports attire because the last time I checked, the military doesn't offer sports attire. I would have to agree with 35M, as a senior NCO, this should be common knowledge.

so as a msg, you seriously do not know that you salute the flag in pts? wow, what is the army coming to then?

This is funny to me im at a place where we dont even play Reveille lol