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Airborne tab with SSI-FWTS
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Picture of sysalis
posted
All right, so I deployed with the 44th Medical Command (Airborne) in 2009. In April 2010 we lost our airborne tab but were told that if we deployed while the Command, now Brigade, was airborne we could keep the tab on our SSI-FWTS.

I have been approached about my airborne tab twice in the past two weeks and I want to clarify on whether or not I have been wearing my SSI-FWTS correctly or not since the ALARACT message came out.

In ALARACT 435/2011 it says

quote:
SUBJECT: UNITS AUTHORIZED TO WEAR THE AIRBORNE TAB WITH THE SHOULDER SLEEVE
INSIGNIA
1. THE PURPOSE OF THIS MESSAGE IS TO CLARIFY THE POLICY FOR WEAR OF THE
AIRBORNE TAB.
2. THE SAPPER, RANGER, SPECIAL FORCES AND PRESIDENT'S HUNDRED TABS ARE THE
ONLY SPECIAL SKILL OR MARKSMANSHIP TABS AUTHORIZED FOR PERMANENT WEAR. THE
AIRBORNE TAB IS CONSIDERED AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE SHOULDER SLEEVE INSIGNIA
(SSI). AIRBORNE TABS ARE ONLY AUTHORIZED TO BE WORN ABOVE THE SSI IF
ASSIGNED TO ONE OF THE UNITS BELOW:


As I read this, this only specifies current airborne units as well as only the SSI. This message does not specify anything about the SSI-FWTS for those of us who deployed with a unit that was airborne, i.e. 35th Signal Brigade, 1st TSC, 44th Medical Command, etc. I know the SSI and SSI-FWTS are considered two different items since they are listed in two different sections of AR 670-1.

I have seen multiple soldiers who still wear the airborne tab with 35th Signal Brigade, 1st TSC, and a few other former airborne units, but it seems like everyone only cares about 44th Medical Command SSI-FWTS here in Korea.

My fiancee also informed me that there are plenty of soldiers at Fort Hood in both the medical units and her unit, 11th Signal Brigade ,who still wear the 44th Medical Command/Brigade SSI-FWTS with airborne tab. I also know soldiers still in my old battalion in 44th Medical Brigade who still wear the airborne tab on their SSI-FWTS as well.

I do not need anyone to bash me. I am looking for clarification only. I also only heard about this ALARACT about a month or two, which is obviously at least a year after this message came out.




"The most dangerous thing in the world is a second lieutenant with a map and a compass."
-Murphy's Law of Combat
 
Posts: 700 | Location: USAG-Daegu, South Korea | Registered: 28 April 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of JstaUAtech
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Wow it's been awhile since I posted here. If I am correct the 44th fell under 18th Airborne Corps and you feel into the same boat as the 108th ADA BDE.

There's still a lot of confusion surrounding the the Airborne Tab for all those units that were re-aligned to Ft. Bragg and were ordered to remove the tab in April of 2010, and if those units were authorized the tab in the first place.

The last information I picked up on it was that Soldiers who deployed with the Airborne Tab prior to the removal message, were authorized to maintain the tab for the SSI-FWTS. That was for the 108th though. Not sure how proactive the 44th has been since 2010.

Hope that helps a little.
 
Posts: 117 | Registered: 12 September 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of MattU
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There is a lively discussion on S1Net regarding the aforementioned ALARACT.

The thus far final word from Army G-1 is that the list of unit authorized the "Airborne" tab are those authorized. Period. A lot of people are butthurt over this ALARACT, and G-1 doesn't seem to want to budge on it.

It doesn't matter if you have local authorizations, or if the tab has been in the unit for decades, the new list is what it is. Same thing happened with the full-color 1st ID SSI. Army G-1 said no full-color (ie, red "1") patches on the ACU. Local commanders didn't enforce it, but according to regs, it was still unauthorized.

Sometimes we as leaders have to enforce rules and regs we don't agree with. We don't have to like it, we just have to do it in the interest of maintaining good order and discipline.

I hope G-1 adds to the list, but won't be surprised if they don't.

Matt


CH-47D/F Mechanic
Technical Inspector

AR 670-1/Regulation Mafia
 
Posts: 394 | Location: Camp Humphreys, ROK | Registered: 25 June 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of Go Ordnance
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I am not sure of the answer, but the portion that you quoted was for the SSI...not the SSI-FWTS




"If you do not stand by me at my worst, you WILL NOT stand by me at my best."
 
Posts: 719 | Location: Fort Lee | Registered: 18 May 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of TheWiseChief
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quote:
Originally posted by Go Ordnance:
I am not sure of the answer, but the portion that you quoted was for the SSI...not the SSI-FWTS


+1. I thought the same thing. I was with 30th MEDCOM and an FSC that we supported was Airborne and there was a same issue with that. Meaning on the SSI they were allowed the Airborne tab but their combat patch; it was removed.

Here I am with my unit and some with the 44th in Afghanistan in 2009. You might know some of the faces in the photo. I can wear their patch and 4ID but I prefer to remain with my 101st patch.


I will call the unit's S1 and inquire there. If you like, you can PM me and I give you the e-mail of one of my favorite LTC S1s that is on-point with any regulation.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: TheWiseChief,
 
Posts: 1902 | Registered: 04 February 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of sysalis
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by TheWiseChief:

+1. I thought the same thing. I was with 30th MEDCOM and an FSC that we supported was Airborne and there was a same issue with that. Meaning on the SSI they were allowed the Airborne tab but their combat patch; it was removed.

Here I am with my unit and some with the 44th in Afghanistan in 2009. You might know some of the faces in the photo. I can wear their patch and 4ID but I prefer to remain with my 101st patch.

I will call the unit's S1 and inquire there. If you like, you can PM me and I give you the e-mail of one of my favorite LTC S1s that is on-point with any regulation.


Chief, I am the original poster, and that is me in the picture you have. My current 1SG, BN CSM,and platoon sergeant got with out S1 and informed us that since I was wearing the tab when I deployed, I am authorized to wear it.




"The most dangerous thing in the world is a second lieutenant with a map and a compass."
-Murphy's Law of Combat
 
Posts: 700 | Location: USAG-Daegu, South Korea | Registered: 28 April 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of sysalis
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Go Ordnance:
I am not sure of the answer, but the portion that you quoted was for the SSI...not the SSI-FWTS


The portion I quoted was the entire ALARACT message besides the list of units.




"The most dangerous thing in the world is a second lieutenant with a map and a compass."
-Murphy's Law of Combat
 
Posts: 700 | Location: USAG-Daegu, South Korea | Registered: 28 April 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of TheWiseChief
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by sysalis:
quote:
Originally posted by TheWiseChief:

+1. I thought the same thing. I was with 30th MEDCOM and an FSC that we supported was Airborne and there was a same issue with that. Meaning on the SSI they were allowed the Airborne tab but their combat patch; it was removed.

Here I am with my unit and some with the 44th in Afghanistan in 2009. You might know some of the faces in the photo. I can wear their patch and 4ID but I prefer to remain with my 101st patch.

I will call the unit's S1 and inquire there. If you like, you can PM me and I give you the e-mail of one of my favorite LTC S1s that is on-point with any regulation.


Chief, I am the original poster, and that is me in the picture you have. My current 1SG, BN CSM,and platoon sergeant got with out S1 and informed us that since I was wearing the tab when I deployed, I am authorized to wear it.


I remove the pic to protect the innocent. Wink

Anyway, I would stay with the patch.
 
Posts: 1902 | Registered: 04 February 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of SFC RossiJ
posted Hide Post
quote:
SSI-FWTS

ALARACT 055/2007 is pretty much the last message that came out regarding specific wear of the SSI-FWTS.

I would say that you should continue to wear the Airborne Tab because it was apart of the unit when the unit was deployed ISO wartime operations. When units deactivate SMs are still authorized to wear the FWTS patch of the disbanded unit. Technically ALL Airborne units are titled with "Airborne" ex: 44th MED (Airborne) 3rd Special Forces Group (Airborne). Having said that, I believe the "loss" of the (Airbone) deactivates the unit. It is then reactivated without the Airborne identifier.

If you were awarded (authorized for wear) a FWTS patch for 44th MED (Airborne) you are still authorized to wear the tab as it was awarded to you as a member of the "Airborne" unit.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SFC RossiJ,
 
Posts: 275 | Location: Djibouti | Registered: 17 May 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of sysalis
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SFC RossiJ:
ALARACT 055/2007 is pretty much the last message that came out regarding specific wear of the SSI-FWTS.

I would say that you should continue to wear the Airborne Tab because it was apart of the unit when the unit was deployed ISO wartime operations. When units deactivate SMs are still authorized to wear the FWTS patch of the disbanded unit. Technically ALL Airborne units are titled with "Airborne" ex: 44th MED (Airbore) 3rd Special Forces Group (Airbore). Having said that, I believe the "loss" of the (Airbone) deactivates the unit. It is then reactivated without the Airborne identifier.

If you were awarded (authorized for wear) a FWTS patch for 44th MED (Airborne) you are still authorized to wear the tab as it was awarded to you as a member of the "Airborne" unit.


That's pretty much the run down my BN S1 gave me.
Especially since my orders and other paperwork say either 44th MEDCOM (Airborne), 261st MMB (Airborne), or 36th ASMC (Airborne) depending on whether the paperwork came from brigade, battalion, or the company.




"The most dangerous thing in the world is a second lieutenant with a map and a compass."
-Murphy's Law of Combat
 
Posts: 700 | Location: USAG-Daegu, South Korea | Registered: 28 April 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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I, too, am waiting for someone to criticize my wear of the Airborne tab over the 44th Med Bde patch. Was deployed with 1872nd Med Det 2007-2008 ISO 44th MEDCOM, per my Statement of Service.

Question is: since there are people out there who love to quote AR, is there supporting documentation in favor of continuing to wear the tab, if it was awarded at a SSI-FWTS prior to the ALARACT? I'd like to be able to quote the policy that says that I am authorized to wear it.

The post that says that a soldier can wear the patch of units that were disbanded...was the 44th actually disbanded, or reorganized/redesignated/etc.?
 
Posts: 3 | Registered: 07 April 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of sysalis
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jesse.bourque:
The post that says that a soldier can wear the patch of units that were disbanded...was the 44th actually disbanded, or reorganized/redesignated/etc.?


The 44th was reorganized/redesignated from the 44th MEDCOM to the 44th Med Bde. If I remember correctly from the unit's history, this is the third or fourth time the 44th was reorganized/redesignated.




"The most dangerous thing in the world is a second lieutenant with a map and a compass."
-Murphy's Law of Combat
 
Posts: 700 | Location: USAG-Daegu, South Korea | Registered: 28 April 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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As I see it, this information makes wear of the tab less "legal"...


The brigade was converted to a Medical Command on 16 October 2001 and became a multi-component unit. While at Fort Bragg the brigade had become an Airborne unit, but as part of its conversion the 44th lost this designation. Only headquarters elements and a very limited number of its subordinate units had actually been on jump status, and the reorganization to a command removed headquarters elements from jump status. Currently the unit is redesignated as 44th Medical Brigade on 21 April 2010.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/44th_Medical_Brigade

The 44th Medical Brigade was reactivated on 21 September 1974 at Fort Bragg. On 16 July 1993, the 44th Medical Brigade became a separate Major Subordinate Command reporting directly to the XVIII Corps with a General Officer commanding.
The Brigade was reorganized and redesignated as the 44th Medical Command on 16 October 2001. The mission of the 44th Medical Command was to organize, resource, train, sustain, deploy, command, control and support assigned and attached healthcare capabilities to provide flexible, responsive and effective health service support and force health protection to supported forces conducting joint and simultaneous full spectrum operations.
As part of the reorganization, the 55th Medical Group was subsequently inactivated and its subordinate units reassigned directly to the Command. Subsequently, the Command also lost its jump status, removing the airborne tab from its shoulder sleeve insignia.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/...y/army/44med-bde.htm
 
Posts: 3 | Registered: 07 April 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of sysalis
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by jesse.bourque:
As I see it, this information makes wear of the tab less "legal"...


The thing about that is, that would be relevent for the SSI. For those of us who deployed with the unit when they did have the Airbone tab, such as myself and hundreds of others, the ALARACT message only states SSI and does not mention about those who deployed with the 44th MEDCOM when they were airborne and have the airbone tab on the SSI-FWTS.

Also, even though only certain units in the 44th MEDCOM were on jump status, such as the 261st MMB (the battalion I deployed with), the entire MEDCOM wore the airborne tab.




"The most dangerous thing in the world is a second lieutenant with a map and a compass."
-Murphy's Law of Combat
 
Posts: 700 | Location: USAG-Daegu, South Korea | Registered: 28 April 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of TheWiseChief
posted Hide Post
I remember the G1 SGM Easley that I use to ask questions for clarification. There is a new SGM in that position now. Matt may know but it be best to e-mail that POC.

What will be the issue, if the airborne tab needs to be removed? The unit patch is what counts.

I have the 101st as an SSI-FWTS and even though its no longer an airborne division; it was allowed to keep it for honorable and historical reasons. If they told me to remove it tomorrow; I would not care. I am not airborne qualified; just air assault and wish they had a tab for that Wink.
 
Posts: 1902 | Registered: 04 February 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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