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PTDY w/Transition Leave or School Drop?
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posted
I am trying to explore my options to get out in time to attend school. Here's the situation: My ETS date is 29 December. I have 79 days on my ETS balance. I will be doing a DITY move, so between my 79 days of leave, and 7 days of travel time, I will be leaving on October 5. I would need 20 days of PTDY from my commander in order to make it there on time.

My PSG does not think it will happen, but I am scheduled to talk to the commander in a few days when get gets off leave (yes, I know that a company commander cannot approve it anyway). Per the regulation, I am not authorized any PTDY, however I have known several people that have gotten PTDY for transition when they were not authorized it per regulation.

Another option I suppose would be a school drop, however this is something I am confused about. I understand that you can request to separate up to 90 days early, but I don't know where transition leave fits into that. If that 90 days early includes transition leave, I won't be able to make it on time, because that would basically only get me out 11 days early. If I does not include transition leave in the maximum 90 days, then obviously that would work.

S-1 wasn't much help (pretty much Army standard in my experience). Anybody have any input on how this works? I really just want to go to school, and it would really suck if I couldn't attend because of 2 weeks...
 
Posts: 48 | Registered: 23 April 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of TheWiseChief
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Does your school date start in January? The 90 days include transition leave. Trans am should be able to help.
 
Posts: 1902 | Registered: 04 February 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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quote:
Originally posted by JR_31B:
I am trying to explore my options to get out in time to attend school. Here's the situation: My ETS date is 29 December. I have 79 days on my ETS balance. I will be doing a DITY move, so between my 79 days of leave, and 7 days of travel time, I will be leaving on October 5. I would need 20 days of PTDY from my commander in order to make it there on time.

My PSG does not think it will happen, but I am scheduled to talk to the commander in a few days when get gets off leave (yes, I know that a company commander cannot approve it anyway). Per the regulation, I am not authorized any PTDY, however I have known several people that have gotten PTDY for transition when they were not authorized it per regulation.

Another option I suppose would be a school drop, however this is something I am confused about. I understand that you can request to separate up to 90 days early, but I don't know where transition leave fits into that. If that 90 days early includes transition leave, I won't be able to make it on time, because that would basically only get me out 11 days early. If I does not include transition leave in the maximum 90 days, then obviously that would work.

S-1 wasn't much help (pretty much Army standard in my experience). Anybody have any input on how this works? I really just want to go to school, and it would really suck if I couldn't attend because of 2 weeks...


IF you realized exactly how much a S1 has to deal with, I think you may give them a little wiggle room.

To help you though, when is the start date of your school?

Have you looked this up in the regs?
 
Posts: 531 | Registered: 10 June 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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AR 635-200 para 5-16

5–16. Early separation to further education
Soldiers may be discharged or released from active duty for the convenience of the Government, up to 90 days before
ETS, in order to attend a specific term at college, university, vocational school, or technical school.
a. Soldiers serving initial enlistments of less than 3 years, members of the ARNGUS or USAR serving on ADT, and
former senior ROTC cadets ordered to active duty because of breaches of contract are ineligible for separation under
this paragraph.
b. To qualify for early separation, eligible Soldiers must—
(1) Not be mission essential to their assigned organizations, as determined by commanders concerned.
(2) Clearly establish that the specific school term for which they seek early separation is academically the most
opportune time for them to begin or resume their education, and that delay of school enrollment until normal ETS
would cause undue personal hardship.
(3) Provide a statement from an appropriate school official (for example, a registrar or director of admissions)
indicating acceptance for enrollment (without qualification or in a probationary status) in a full-time resident course of
instruction. The statement must also reflect that the latest acceptable registration date for the school term falls within
the 90–day period preceding the Soldier’s ETS.
(4) Show that they are able to pay, or have already paid, school entry fees.
c. The college or university must offer courses of instruction leading to an associate, baccalaureate, or higher degree
and must be approved by the Department of Veterans’ Affairs. The vocational or technical school must offer a course
of instruction of no less than 3 months’ duration and must be approved by the Department of Veterans’ Affairs.
d. The effective date of early separation under this paragraph normally will not be earlier than 10 days prior to the
date classes convene, except when Soldiers may be separated up to 30 days prior to the date classes convene if
evidence is submitted that the 10-day period is clearly insufficient. This is not intended as authority to permit
separation a full 30 days prior to class starting date in every case but to provide a reasonable latitude in justifiable
cases to authorize separation on a date that will give the Soldier adequate time to register and enter the school on time.
Examples include Soldiers returning from overseas and those who must move their families to the school location.
e. Accrued leave will be used to the maximum extent possible, as transition leave, in conjunction with early
separation under this paragraph.
f. For characterization of service, see paragraph 5–1.
g. Commanders specified in paragraph 1–19 are authorized to order separation under this paragraph. The criteria in
chapter 1, section VII, will govern whether Soldiers will be released from AD with transfer to the IRR, or discharged.
h. Combining this paragraph with other early release programs to effect separation more than 90 days before ETS is
not authorized.
 
Posts: 531 | Registered: 10 June 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of TheWiseChief
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Ok, I re-read his post, so I guess he is trying to start college this September in the fall.

Personally, I will say forget it and enroll for Winter 2014 for classes to start in January.

If happened to me when I was in AIT and in the Army Reserves. I ended up missing the semester since I graduated AIT (September) later than expected
 
Posts: 1902 | Registered: 04 February 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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Oh, I should mention that the BN CDR can authorize an additional 10 days (for a total of 20 days PTDY).

Your source is AR 600-8-10 para 5-35 e (1).

Did you go through ACAP? I know that here they mention it when you go through the course.

Good luck with the process, really, there should be no reason that you shouldn't be able to get out of there in time.
 
Posts: 531 | Registered: 10 June 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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I am trying to start school in Fall. I can't exactly just start classes in Winter because the Introductory class I need is only offered in Fall. So if I don't start in Fall, I can't start class until the following Fall term.

I have read the reg, but the reg is open to interpretation. It states that leave "will be used to the maximum extent possible in conjunction with early separation". Well that can mean a number of things.

And I don't have any sympathy for S1. They are rarely there past 1500 and then bitch whenever anybody asks them for something because they claim they are so busy. But that is a topic for another thread...
 
Posts: 48 | Registered: 23 April 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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quote:
Originally posted by JR_31B:
And I don't have any sympathy for S1. They are rarely there past 1500 and then bitch whenever anybody asks them for something because they claim they are so busy. But that is a topic for another thread...



Sorry to hear that, when I leave the only ones left are the S1 people, the BN XO and maybe the BN CDR...

quote:
Originally posted by JR_31B:
I have read the reg, but the reg is open to interpretation. It states that leave "will be used to the maximum extent possible in conjunction with early separation". Well that can mean a number of things.



What this means is that if with all your leave you could get out in time, then do that.

It is meant to prevent you getting your early sep approved, and then selling your leave to make money, or using your leave and getting out even sooner.

This also helps keep the unit manned to its strength since it takes a minimum of 90 days to get a replacement. (Whether you like it or not, they need to keep numbers).

So, there really is no variance in reading the reg.

All said, the early ETS should have been completed the very beginning of this year.
 
Posts: 531 | Registered: 10 June 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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quote:
Originally posted by IntheArmyAG:
Oh, I should mention that the BN CDR can authorize an additional 10 days (for a total of 20 days PTDY).

Your source is AR 600-8-10 para 5-35 e (1).

Did you go through ACAP? I know that here they mention it when you go through the course.

Good luck with the process, really, there should be no reason that you shouldn't be able to get out of there in time.


I was under the impression that I wouldn't qualify for the PTDY w/transition leave because:

"c. The following Soldiers are not eligible for any PTDY under any transition program:
(1) Soldiers voluntarily separating as a result of expiration of term of service or expiration of service agreement."
 
Posts: 48 | Registered: 23 April 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post

posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by JR_31B:
quote:
Originally posted by IntheArmyAG:
Oh, I should mention that the BN CDR can authorize an additional 10 days (for a total of 20 days PTDY).

Your source is AR 600-8-10 para 5-35 e (1).

Did you go through ACAP? I know that here they mention it when you go through the course.

Good luck with the process, really, there should be no reason that you shouldn't be able to get out of there in time.


I was under the impression that I wouldn't qualify for the PTDY w/transition leave because:

"c. The following Soldiers are not eligible for any PTDY under any transition program:
(1) Soldiers voluntarily separating as a result of expiration of term of service or expiration of service agreement."


We process them, doesn't necessarily make it right. Go stand on the S1's desk until they answer. Use your leadership though, I don't know your rank and would hate to see you get blown up.
 
Posts: 531 | Registered: 10 June 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of TheWiseChief
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I doubt that your school only takes students in the fall because of an introductory class. You can still take your other requisite courses in the winter and take that introductory next fall. Talk to the student advisor at your school for details. I attended five colleges and universities during my studies and never heard of those types of restrictions.

Since your Commander is obviously a college graduate that reason may not hold weight.
 
Posts: 1902 | Registered: 04 February 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of TheWiseChief
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by JR_31B:
quote:
Originally posted by IntheArmyAG:
Oh, I should mention that the BN CDR can authorize an additional 10 days (for a total of 20 days PTDY).

Your source is AR 600-8-10 para 5-35 e (1).

Did you go through ACAP? I know that here they mention it when you go through the course.

Good luck with the process, really, there should be no reason that you shouldn't be able to get out of there in time.


I was under the impression that I wouldn't qualify for the PTDY w/transition leave because:

"c. The following Soldiers are not eligible for any PTDY under any transition program:
(1) Soldiers voluntarily separating as a result of expiration of term of service or expiration of service agreement."


That is correct. I was never afforded permissive TDY when I first left active service in the early 90s.
 
Posts: 1902 | Registered: 04 February 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post

posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by TheWiseChief:
I doubt that your school only takes students in the fall because of an introductory class. You can still take your other requisite courses in the winter and take that introductory next fall. Talk to the student advisor at your school for details. I attended five colleges and universities during my studies and never heard of those types of restrictions.

Since your Commander is obviously a college graduate that reason may not hold weight.


It's not that the school only takes students in the fall, it's the fact that the program is structured and they don't offer these classes during each term. I am enrolling in an EMT course. The introductory to EMS class is a requisite for EMT-B. EMT-B is a requisite for EMT-I, EMT-I is a requisite for EMT-P. Therefore, if I don't take intro to EMS, my plan is completely on hold for another year. If I was only taking general ed classes which are offered every term I wouldn't worry about it, but that isn't the case. I already have an associates degree so I just need to find a way to knock out these EMT classes.

The only other thing I could think to do is see if I can miss two weeks. Maybe I can ask the instructor for some assignments out of the book that I can do in the meantime that will keep me on track so I can miss the first couple weeks.
 
Posts: 48 | Registered: 23 April 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of TransAm95NCO
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Not only are you NOT authorized PTDY if you are ETS'ing, you have to keep in mind your use or lose and the end of the fiscal year. Yeah you have 80 days but, on 1 Oct, how many will you have? will you lose any on 30 sept? If so you cannot take them as ETS leave, you will have to take them now as ordinary and then take the remaining as ETS. I like how you generalized all S1s but you are the one trying to do everything last minute, like its the case with most Soldiers as they are getting out, they do not ACAP, or meet other requirements but they want ETPs signed and their paperwork rushed ( by S1) so they can get what they want.


Lead by Example!!!
 
Posts: 3914 | Location: Somewhere in the US | Registered: 13 September 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of TransAm95NCO
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quote:
Originally posted by JR_31B:

And I don't have any sympathy for S1. They are rarely there past 1500 and then bitch whenever anybody asks them for something because they claim they are so busy. But that is a topic for another thread...


I dont know about your S1 but ours is always busy, not only do we have routine work to do, taskings from Division, daily, monthly reports, mail, and of course taking care of our Soldiers in the units, we also have to do all this while all my Soldiers (and sometimes myself) get tasked out on other duties that keep us out of the office...I know what you are saying because there are some S1s that just do not do anything, and leave early, maybe one day I get to get to one of those and relax for a bit haha, hell no i would fix them real quick!!


Lead by Example!!!
 
Posts: 3914 | Location: Somewhere in the US | Registered: 13 September 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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