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posted
I am counseling a reserve soldier (not my soldier) for disrespect and lying to me. here is a quick run down of what has happened. We were at PT and our NCOIC had not arrived, so I took charge of the formation. Since we are a small section I told her to go into the weight room and work out or go running. She resonded to me by getting smart and saying that she was going to go back to where she was staying and work out there. I then told her no, she would do PT in the gym. Then she said that she had to take another soldier to sick call at 0700. At this point our NCOIC walked in and PT proceded as normal. She conducted PT and never made a mention of having to take a soldier to sick call to our NCOIC. I wrote her counseling statement, and prepared to give it to her, when I get a call from the 1SG saying that he wants to see her NCO support channel and talk about this. (oh by the way she stays at the 1SG house at the moment because the unit is having problems getting her housing to come on active duty, I am apart of a multicompo unit) The 1SG talks to our NCOIC and tells him that she is going through alot of stress and that cut her some slack, also she is just out of AIT (she spent a year on active duty with the unit before she went to AIT) so she dont' know any better. He also stated that he is haveing problems recuiting reserve soldiers and that she m ight not come on active duty if she gets mad. I have not been told specifically to not give her the counseling but I have been recieving pressure from my SSG, MSG, and 1SG to just give her a verbal counseling. Normally I would agree with this but I take lying Artical 107 very seriously. Another thing that has pissed me off about this is that she totally skipped her NCO support channel and went directly to the 1SG about this. Any advice out there on this one? I am still leaning twords the hard right and giving her the counselling.
 
Posts: 1 | Registered: 15 January 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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This is a definetly an interesting situation. I would still give her a DA4856 describing the incident. You were talking about Article 107... you also need to keep in mind Article 92 (not worded exactly like this but... failure to obey order or regulation). I would say you need to document the incident somehow. You don't have to neccessarily give 'corrective training' under the plan of action. But trust me, i'm in this situation now, if you don't document your soldiers activities (especially disciplinary ones), when they keep screwing up the chain of command is going to look at their counseling packet and if it is relatively 'clean' nothing would happen. Due to the fact that there is no matter of misconduct. Good luck in what you decide.
 
Posts: 119 | Location: sucking sand right now | Registered: 22 August 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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GIve her the 4856 because when it comes time to bust her you asre going to need the paper trail, JAG don't care about verbal counselings, As to the 1SG heshould know better to have a lower enlistedd living with him. that is not excusable. AR 600-20. But as for her couseling it is not your job to recommend articles (commanders job) you only reccommend UCMJ. Besides u have her on three counts dis obeying a lawful order AR92, disrespect to a NCO Ar91 and lying to a subriotne officer AR107. I say bust her, but inly if you have the paper trail.
quote:
LEGS that are afraid to jump from a high performance aircraft while in flight should not talk shit about those that do. AIRBORNE!
 
Posts: 4 | Registered: 09 January 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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I haven't posted here before, but I couldn't pass this up. Being medical, if there is anything we know, it is MEMERANDOM FOR RECORD. Give her the verbal with a witness present. Then do the MFR, and place it in her file.
 
Posts: 3 | Registered: 18 January 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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Of course she skipped the entire NCO Support Channel,.......and why shouldn't she? She is living at the 1SG house! That is a direct violation of AR600-20, and is unacceptable for the very reason you have given in your scenario. Because she stays at the 1SGs residence,......the soldier doesn't feel like the rules apply to her, PT, Chain of Command,...none of it. And apparently,.....your 1SG has lost his damn mind! He has lost all reasoning ability because of his improper relationship with the soldier. Who the hell cares if she gets mad and decides not to join! Why would we want a piece of shit like that in our Army IN THE FIRST PLACE? I believe the 1SGs concern is where will he find his next live in piece of cootche! This relationship needs to be brought to the attention of either the BN CSM or the unti CDR. It has obviously already been detrimental to the good order and discipline of the unit, since the 1SG is improperly using his authority to influence you to "give her some slack" or another chance or whatever his exact words were. You know what the right thing to do is. She needs to be counseled on a DA4856 on BOTH issues. The late to PT or failure to show up or trying to leave early issue & lying about why issue,.....and the issue of her living with the 1SG. If it comes up in the future,......she can say that she was not aware that it was inappropriate and that her supervisors never told her there was anything wrong with it. Then you need to go see your BN CSM or your Company CDR and brief them on the situation with the soldier residing with the 1SG and the negative impact that it is having on the unit. Let us know how it goes.

DS 2000
 
Posts: 218 | Location: Baumholder, Germany | Registered: 01 November 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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I've not seen a post by DS2000 that was so Firey! You sound like you are pissed!

BTW... I just cant see this situation existing in the Army. What the hell is going on.. This isnt even anything they would make a fiction book about. There must be something in this story that I'm not reading right, or you are not telling us... Just blows my mind!
 
Posts: 348 | Location: Camp Slayer, Iraq | Registered: 09 December 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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[quote:66d60d5d41="TenaciousP"]I've not seen a post by DS2000 that was so Firey! You sound like you are pissed!

BTW... I just cant see this situation existing in the Army. What the hell is going on.. This isnt even anything they would make a fiction book about. There must be something in this story that I'm not reading right, or you are not telling us... Just blows my mind![/quote:66d60d5d41]

Hello, wake up young soldier, there is more to the Army than just the unit you are with.

I also live this life. I'm an RTD (AC/RC) [The active duty guy who works with a NG unit.] And is what really burns is it seems to be the Reservists who do the most of the non-functioning. My NG unit is tight, ready to train, and does well in their endeavours.
However, it's our (as in same patch) spt channel, the fat rats living at Ft Carson that just screw it all up. And it always points to the rotating Reservists that are at fault. And what really gets me going is the fact I can't walk down the strret and yank somebody's chain! So I fully understand what you are going through.

DO the counseling. Document it. Like DS2K posted above, someone has absolutley lost their mind! If you are at Ft. Carson, don't sugar coat it, go harsh and truthful!

"T" Ask yourself this?
Would you want this soldier to fill a position on your perimeter?
 
Posts: 32 | Location: NE Oregon | Registered: 31 December 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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Hey, about that soldier..... Sounds to me that there is something "extra" going on between her and the First Sergeant there.... Might want to check into that.....
 
Posts: 1 | Location: US ARMY SOUTH KOREA | Registered: 31 January 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
<MIguy001>
posted
As another 97B I'll mention a form you should know by heart. A sworn statement of the incident attached to a counseling statment tells someone you're serious about it and made an effort to discipline her. When the Soldier lied about the sick call incident that in and of itself was proof of insubordination of your authority as an NCO. This Joe didn't want to follow YOUR orders but will another? When I was a PFC or SPC I didn't like some NCOs (we all know that) but I sure as hell followed their orders (none were illegal).

I was the kind of lower enlisted that questioned somethings that I was told to do (largely so I could figure a better way of doing it). But PT shouldn't be questioned, its PT! And if you're dealing with an MI Soldier, you know the kind of attitudes that the Joes can have.
 
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[quote:40104d0695="MIguy001"]
...And if you're dealing with an MI Soldier, you know the kind of attitudes that the Joes can have.[/quote:40104d0695]

Ha! Yeah, I know about the MI types. Let tell you a little anecdote: Yesterday was very cold, here, in Leavenworth. I see this MI soldier in his duty uniform but I noticed something most peculiar about his headgear. He was wearing a Cleveland Browns skullcap! He probably wouldn't have been so conspicuous had he donned the black PT cap. But damn, a brown skull cap? Come on! Guess who was walking to his right? Yep, you guessed it: His NCO!

96B's you gotta love 'em! :lol:
 
Posts: 201 | Location: CONUS | Registered: 19 January 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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[quote:b86c929cad]96B's you gotta love 'em! [/quote:b86c929cad]

Lonewolf,

How are you gonna go and bust on 96B's like that?? As a 96B in a signal unit, I'll tell you there are some pretty jacked up 74Bs, 31Ls and 31Ss here in Belgium. It's not just a branch or MOS thing...it's Army wide. It has a lot to do with the mentality of these newer soldiers in Today's Army. Just my two pennies.

[b:b86c929cad]Always Out Front[/b:b86c929cad]
 
Posts: 135 | Location: Virginia | Registered: 08 December 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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[quote:1fe7c18b75="spcisola"][quote:1fe7c18b75]96B's you gotta love 'em! [/quote:1fe7c18b75]

Lonewolf,

How are you gonna go and bust on 96B's like that?? As a 96B in a signal unit, I'll tell you there are some pretty jacked up 74Bs, 31Ls and 31Ss here in Belgium. It's not just a branch or MOS thing...it's Army wide. It has a lot to do with the mentality of these newer soldiers in Today's Army. Just my two pennies.

[b:1fe7c18b75]Always Out Front[/b:1fe7c18b75][/quote:1fe7c18b75]

Spcisola,

Hey, I am just joking. I like to joke around like that. I know there are jacked up soldiers in all branches. :lol:

I see it like this: the lack of discipline is related to the station. The things that go on in a Belgium (SHAPE) or in a Leavenworth would never go on at a Bragg.

You forgive me? Smiler
 
Posts: 201 | Location: CONUS | Registered: 19 January 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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No Prob Lonewolf....just gotta defend my fellow MI soldiers out there :lol:
 
Posts: 135 | Location: Virginia | Registered: 08 December 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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[quote:66c2957f6f="spcisola"]No Prob Lonewolf....just gotta defend my fellow MI soldiers out there :lol:[/quote:66c2957f6f]

Yeah...I know!

I should talk though...74B soldiers have issues too. We are notorious for sucking at PT. :lol:
 
Posts: 201 | Location: CONUS | Registered: 19 January 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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No doubt Lonewolf, Im a 74B, but in an MI unit :wink: Ive got the best PT score in the Company. Actually, I think I'm the only soldier maxing in any event.
 
Posts: 348 | Location: Camp Slayer, Iraq | Registered: 09 December 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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