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The "magic bullet"
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Picture of Jeep
posted
I have always been told that when I am writing a counseling statement that has the possibility of leading up to UCMJ action that it should always have that magic bullet in there.

Is this true? has anyone else run into an issue where they did not have that statement at the bottom and that stopped the recommendation for UCMJ action? Is this one of those urban legends like the truck, trk, whatever it is, that ball on the top of the flag pole that is not mentioned in any Army Reg or FM?
 
Posts: 199 | Registered: 18 October 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of SSG Hammy
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Yes, you need the magic bullet. It says that the soldier can be chaptered out due to the conduct (whatever they were doing). It also tells them of the consequences of being chaptered, as well as the different types of chapters. If you don't have that on an adverse counseling statement that is going up for UCMJ, then JAG will kick it back. Actually, if you are newly promoted, then your supervisor should be checking those anyway. It's all part of the mentoring process. If they aren't just ask them to check it. I'm sure they will be happy to. It will help you develop into a better NCO.

You should buy or borrow the book "The Mentor". You can find it at your Clothing and Sales store. It has a lot of good info on counseling, as well as the magic statement.

I'll PM you with the Magic Statement.
 
Posts: 215 | Location: Ft. Lewis | Registered: 24 October 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of grlrplmstr
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You know the wierd thing about that book? The guy who wrote it left the battalion I got to in '96. Good ol' 191st Ordnance Battalion. Miesau, Germany. The perimeter we ran for PT at it's longest (when the gate at the side road was open) was about 2 miles - and the road did a 180 turn and ran parallel to itself for about 30-50 yards! That was the 2mile route out and back.
 
Posts: 224 | Location: Platoon Mama in the Last Frontier!! | Registered: 08 August 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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I'm just wondering, What is the "Magic Bullet". Is it a statement in a counseling form that says that ucmj action can be taken. If so What is a example of a "Magic Bullet" Statement.
 
Posts: 1 | Location: Utah | Registered: 14 February 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of PA_in_2ID
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"THE MENTOR" is a great book....for Couseling / 4856 Bible....

Slight variations....to it...but basically

" Be advised that continue conduct of this nature may result in initiation of a bar to re-enlistment, administrative actin to include your seperation from the service, and/or punishment actions (ie UCMJ action).
If this conduct continues, action may be initiated to involuntarily sperate you from the service under AR 635-200, Chapter 5, 11,13, or 14. If you are involuntary seperated, you could recieve and Honorable, General Under Honorable Conditions, Under other than honorable honorable Conditions, or Uncharacterized discharge. An Honorable discharge may be awarded under Chapter 5,13, and 14. And Uncharacterized discharge may be awarded under Chapter 11. A General Under Honerable Conditions discharge may be awarded for a Chapter 5,13, and 14. An Under Other than Honerable Conditions discharge may be awarded for chapter 14. If you recieve and Honerable discharge you will be qualified for most benifits resulting from military service. If you recieve a General Under Honorable Conditions or an Uncharacterized discharge, you will be disqualified from re-enlisting in the service for some period (ie..at least 2 years) and you will be ineligible for many veterans benefits to include but not limited to the MGIB. If you recieve an Under Other than Honorable discharge, you will be ineligible for most, if not all veterans benefits to include but not limited to the MGIB, and you will be precluded from re-enlisting in the service. If either a General Under Honorable Conditions, Under Other than Honorable Conditions, or an Uncharacterized discharge is given, you may face difficulty in obtaining civilian employment as employers have a low regard for less than Honorable discharges. Lastly, although agencies exist to which you may apply to upgrade a less than honorable discharge, it is unlikely that such an applicition will be successfull"

And in PLAN OF ACTION:

--Soldier's performance will improve immediatly..

--Soldier will conduct corrective training: 500 word essay due to SGT Snuffy, NLT 18 Feb 1007, 0600 Hours

--Soldier will be recommended for article 15 or chapter initiaion on (2nd, 3rd, whatever offense)

there are some varations....but thats a majic statment.
 
Posts: 548 | Location: Camp Hovey, Korea | Registered: 23 November 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of CombatMedicSkirt
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I am seeing a common error in the posting or interpretation of the "magic statement" and that is the capitalization of the word under. I respectfully submit to all, there is no Under Other Than...there is a Other Than....

AR 635-200 - Active Duty Enlisted Administrative Separations does not actually provide a word for word statement. However, there are many renditions. The purpose of the statement is the ensure that somewhere in the counseling process the Soldier has been made aware of potential legal actions that can occur should she/he continue with behaviors that have been identified as criminal/inappropriate IAW UCMJ.

The statement that I have found to be the most accurate is as follows, (it is not mine I cannot take credit but again feel that it is the most accurate):

This is the “magic language” required under paragraph 1-16 of AR 635-200. Put it in the Key Points of Discussion section of PART III of the DA 4856 Counseling Form.

This counseling statement has been furnished to you, not as a punitive measure under the provisions of article 15, UCMJ, but as an administrative measure to stress that continued behavior of the same or a similar nature may result in initiation of action eliminating you from the U.S. Army for (Involuntary Separation Due To Parenthood) (Personality Disorder) (Entry Level Performance and Conduct) (Unsatisfactory Performance) (Misconduct or Minor Disciplinary Infractions) under the provisions of Chapter (5) (8) (11) (13) (14) , AR 635-200. Such action may result in the issuance of either an Honorable Discharge, General Discharge, or an Other Than Honorable (OTH) Discharge. If you receive a General or an OTH Discharge, this could result in the possible loss of some or all Veterans Benefits and substantial prejudice in obtaining civilian employment. In addition, if you have contributed money to the Montgomery G.I. Bill and you are released from active duty with a less than Honorable Discharge, you will not be eligible to receive money for educational purposes and any money already contributed for educational purposes is nonrefundable and may be forfeited.


No one can compromise your integrity, except you.
 
Posts: 18 | Registered: 08 September 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of V3-03
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CombatMedicSkirt: Your 1-16 counseling language is lacking the instruction of the likelihood of an individual having his discharge upgraded--see the last sentence in the language provided by OC_ipap.

Also, it is not inappropriate to refer to an OTH as under other than honorable conditions; there are two types of service characterizations authorized under AR 635-200, which are under honorable conditions, i.e., honorable and general discharges, and under other than honorable conditions, i.e., other than honorable discharge.
 
Posts: 53 | Location: FTCKY | Registered: 19 July 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of CombatMedicSkirt
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V3,

I believe that we agree there is no absolute or all inclusive "magic statement". There is no possible way to cover each and every possible infraction in or on the DA 4856 in one statement. Each statement should be tweaked to fit the situation, e.g. I would not include the pregnancy chapter information in the statement if I were writing a counseling for missing movement.

And, I will agree, it is not inappropriate to refer to an OTH as an under OTH, in fact that was my point. However, it is inappropriate to refer to an OTH as an Under OTH. If you look at many of the "magic statements" as provided on this site, the capitalization of the word Under indicates to many that it is an actual chapter. Whomever originally copied and pasted information from the UCMJ reference copied the title of a topic and left in capitalized; it is topic in which those infractions under OTH are discussed, not an actual chapter.


No one can compromise your integrity, except you.
 
Posts: 18 | Registered: 08 September 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of V3-03
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AR 635-200, para. 17-3a-d, instructs specific subjects that "must" be covered in order to meet the 1-16 counseling requirement. Para. 17-3d states, "The likelihood that the soldier will be successful in any attempt to have the character of his/her discharge changed." Therefore, an "effective" 1-16 counseling MUST contain such an instruction.
 
Posts: 53 | Location: FTCKY | Registered: 19 July 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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i was told that no articles of the UCMJ can be put in the caunseling. let JAG handle that.


SGT
 
Posts: 1 | Registered: 06 August 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of CombatMedicSkirt
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Eclaudaddy,

That is incorrect. I work in an IET environment and have personally been told by the JAG that the statement must be on the DA 4856 or it will not be valid. Call your JA office. The purpose of the statement (and articles) is to ensure the Soldier receiving the counseling is fully aware of what articles he/she has violated and the repercussions for his/her actions. Too often Soldiers reported that they were not fully of aware that their actions could or would result in any legal/disciplinary actions. In some cases, once a Soldier receives a formal counseling with the information cited, it serves as a deterrent against repeat infractions.


No one can compromise your integrity, except you.
 
Posts: 18 | Registered: 08 September 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of AutobahnSHO
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I believe what ecaludaddy means is that you are NOT supposed to list at top that Soldier broke "such and such # article of UCMJ."

We're not lawyers, a counseling statement shouldn't try to determine what the infractions wer which part of the UCMJ.

The counseling statement should list the facts and only the facts, plus the "magic statement" at the bottom.


Be Proud of what you do- and do it Well! ~me
 
Posts: 5284 | Location: Ft Gordon (Again!!!) :-| | Registered: 22 October 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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quote:
Originally posted by CombatMedicSkirt:
Eclaudaddy,

That is incorrect. I work in an IET environment and have personally been told by the JAG that the statement must be on the DA 4856 or it will not be valid. Call your JA office. The purpose of the statement (and articles) is to ensure the Soldier receiving the counseling is fully aware of what articles he/she has violated and the repercussions for his/her actions. Too often Soldiers reported that they were not fully of aware that their actions could or would result in any legal/disciplinary actions. In some cases, once a Soldier receives a formal counseling with the information cited, it serves as a deterrent against repeat infractions.


I was told by Jag at my last unit the very sam thing
 
Posts: 480 | Registered: 21 March 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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I can tell you now from the 27D world and the world of my attorneys, it is requested that the violation of the UCMJ the Soldier violated or is suspected of violating is NOT added to the counseling. Most NCOs when adding the UCMJ violation on the counseling have actually put the wrong violation. Disobeying an order from an NCO for instance is not an Article 92 violation as most would think, it is an Article 91 violation the same goes if they violate and order from a Commissioned Officer it is an Article 90 violation. Each JAG may be different but the truth is, unless you can meet each of the elements of the Article you are charging the Soldier for, you could potentially counsel the Soldier for the wrong thing thus TDS will view it as though the Soldier was not counseled for the misconduct he/she committed.
 
Posts: 1 | Location: Hawaii | Registered: 11 April 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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Can someone give me an example of the "magic bullet" for someone who was late to formation?
 
Posts: 1 | Location: Virginia  | Registered: 15 April 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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