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The "magic bullet"

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http://community.armystudyguide.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/5851093521/m/4641005631

08 August 2011, 10:12
PARATROOPER270
The "magic bullet"
Until today, I used the "Magic Bullet" furnished by PA_in_2ID. I had JAG reviewing the corrective action that I ordered for a soldier, but he reviewed the entire thing. Told me that that Magic Bullet is null and void. Emailed me this one:

"You are being counseled for the above indicated misconduct and/or unsatisfactory duty performance IAW AR 635-200, 1-16b. Continued behavior of this kind may result in initiation of separation action to eliminate you from the Army or non-judicial or judicial punishment. Any further acts of misconduct or unsatisfactory performance may cause you to be eliminated without further counseling. If you are administratively separated from the Army, you could receive an Honorable (HON), General Under Honorable (GEN) or an Other Than Honorable (OTH) Conditions Discharge. Any less than Honorable discharge could deprive you of many or all military and Veterans Administration (VA) benefits including loss of both education benefits and civil service retirement credit. A negative characterization of your service can have lasting negative impacts on future civilian employment. Should you receive a discharge less favorable than Honorable you may apply to have your characterization of service upgraded by the Army Board for the Correction of Military Records and/or the Army Discharge Review Board."
08 August 2011, 10:53
insertarmysaying
It seems that just when I begin to use one format of the "magic bullet" along comes another one. I would ask why there is not a standard format published in a regulation somewhere.....but this is the Army. And undoubtedly some bean counter with too much time at their desk will jump on here quickly and point out some regulation that provides some vague guidance on "separation counseling", and admonish me for not already knowing this information. At which time I will attempt to use the information provided to me and will be provided yet another version to use by my JAG......and it goes on.
08 August 2011, 13:13
OTNCO
Awesome, I guess I'll just get with JAG at every unit I PCS to because if they submit their version of the magic bullet to me and tell me that it's acceptable, when it comes time to process a Soldier for punitive action they can't deny it.
09 August 2011, 09:57
sysalis
quote:
Originally posted by OTNCO:
Awesome, I guess I'll just get with JAG at every unit I PCS to because if they submit their version of the magic bullet to me and tell me that it's acceptable, when it comes time to process a Soldier for punitive action they can't deny it.


I'm gonna use that idea once I get my stripes. Can't go wrong.




"The most dangerous thing in the world is a second lieutenant with a map and a compass."
-Murphy's Law of Combat
09 August 2011, 11:21
insertarmysaying
quote:
Originally posted by OTNCO:
Awesome, I guess I'll just get with JAG at every unit I PCS to because if they submit their version of the magic bullet to me and tell me that it's acceptable, when it comes time to process a Soldier for punitive action they can't deny it.


That's what I do.
10 August 2011, 05:39
OTNCO
Everytime that I've sat down with JAG for a unit briefing or personal guidance, they tend to just stress the specificity of the action. Time/date/witnesses/length/etc. I'm glad I saw this topic because I've been using a magic counseling bullet that's at least 2-3 yrs old that I pulled from the JAG share folder. I'll definitely be checking for an update.
23 September 2011, 20:49
42Alternate
If your "Magic Statement" covers everything stated in AR 635-200, para 1-16 and Chapter 17 you will be fine. Your JAG offices should not be turning you around simply because this statement is not on counseling statements. It's highly encouraged to use it though.
19 October 2011, 21:18
CVUSFC
I have just been informed by my CSM and JAG that the magic bullet can only be used by commanders , We as NCO's only have the authority to recommend NJP( and only when it is warrented and after multiple counseling for the same thing. If anyone has a regulation or can quote a DA PAM or anything that clears this up this would be great.
20 October 2011, 05:26
sysalis
quote:
Originally posted by CVUSFC:
I have just been informed by my CSM and JAG that the magic bullet can only be used by commanders , We as NCO's only have the authority to recommend NJP( and only when it is warrented and after multiple counseling for the same thing. If anyone has a regulation or can quote a DA PAM or anything that clears this up this would be great.


Of course the commander can give a court martial for whatever. Last I checked, the magic bullet was there to inform the soldier of what MIGHT happen if they continue. Yada yada.

That's what I thought it was for, anyway.




"The most dangerous thing in the world is a second lieutenant with a map and a compass."
-Murphy's Law of Combat
20 October 2011, 10:35
11B32B
sysalis you are correct.

I was informed by my BDE legal NCOIC to include a magic bullet in a counseling informing my Soldier of his reccomendation to be chaptered for multiple underage drinking and DUI's.
21 October 2011, 06:05
sysalis
quote:
Originally posted by LBeezy:
sysalis you are correct.

I was informed by my BDE legal NCOIC to include a magic bullet in a counseling informing my Soldier of his reccomendation to be chaptered for multiple underage drinking and DUI's.


I thought I was right. Just had to clarify. That it might help someone in the future who reads this thread.




"The most dangerous thing in the world is a second lieutenant with a map and a compass."
-Murphy's Law of Combat
28 March 2013, 17:54
johnnytorrance
I've been in for 14 years, and every post I've been to, legal has specifically advised not to mention the magic bullet or annotate what articles he has violated. Counseling's are supposed to be brief and to the point. It's not our job to interpret the violation or the law.
28 March 2013, 18:40
double d
JT,

I've been in 17 and it has always been needed. I'm sure it's up to local commmand policies and varies by post or units. Sorry, but it is an NCOs responsibility to understand AR 27-10, especially the articles and put which article they are violating. If I was JAG and a packet come to me with a stack of 4856s with no annotation of what article the Soldier was in violation of, I wouldn't think too highly of the leaders in that unit.

Again, it will vary on where you are etc....

SFC D