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Soldier with Permanent 'NO PT Test Run' profile still running
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by LuckyLu:
Did a mock walk PT test tonight..

71 Pushups
70 Situps
34:31 walk

I can honestly say for me the walk was EXTREMELY easy. Not once did I feel out of breath, nor did I really have any pain in my legs. If I had the option of doing the walk or run I would pick the walk every single time.

I am not a Super Soldier running 13 minute two miles, I probably average a 1430 or so and I'm usually pretty good with the other two events.


Lucky,
depending on your age that 3430 may not be passing.
 
Posts: 625 | Registered: 19 July 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of LuckyLu
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I'm 31, so I had 30 seconds to spare. I really could have pushed myself a lot more too, but since all I need to do is pass, what's the point?


"America is great because she is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, she will cease to be great." - Eisenhower
 
Posts: 480 | Location: Around the world.... | Registered: 15 August 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of Public_Health_Huh?
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by LuckyLu:
I'm 31, so I had 30 seconds to spare. I really could have pushed myself a lot more too, but since all I need to do is pass, what's the point?


You seriously sound butt hurt. Big Grin
 
Posts: 200 | Location: Presidio of Monterey, California | Registered: 23 August 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of LuckyLu
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Butt hurt for what? I do the PT run, but I wanted to do the walk to see what all the fuss was about.


"America is great because she is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, she will cease to be great." - Eisenhower
 
Posts: 480 | Location: Around the world.... | Registered: 15 August 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by LuckyLu:
Butt hurt for what? I do the PT run, but I wanted to do the walk to see what all the fuss was about.


Sometimes we pick and choose our fights. Are you sure this is the fight you want? Getting back to a question asked at the begining what is your end point?
 
Posts: 625 | Registered: 19 July 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of LuckyLu
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King, great questions. I and my other NCO sat down with the Soldier and I asked him very pointed questions about his profile and how I perceived things to be. At this point, I think I'm just going to leave it alone even though I think it's BS. As far as I am aware we do not have the medical equipment needed to do an MRI on his knee, so for all we know he could be perfect.

He did say some things that made me wonder though. He said he didn't want to get reevaluated because if he got off of the profile and then got injured again, what would happen? I'm not sure what the difference would be between that happening now, or at the end of the five years.

He also said something about wanting to go Airborne, Air Assault, etc., and that those schools wouldn't let you attend on profile.

Strangely enough, a day or so after the sit-down I noticed he removed all of his Facebook posts about his workouts. Nothing about him running eight miles, sub 14 2-miles, etc.


"America is great because she is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, she will cease to be great." - Eisenhower
 
Posts: 480 | Location: Around the world.... | Registered: 15 August 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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LuckyLu,

I got shot in the knee. I was on profile and got myself into great shape before returning.

I stayed on profile until

1. I overcame my fear of sprinting all out with no worries of injuring myself.
2. To jump and land with no pain
3. Run 13 minute 2 mile and 37 min 5 mile.

One thing I noticed when I was hurt was some days I felt great and others I didn't. Because my knee wasn't 100%. One day I could run 3 miles at 7 min pace, thenI would need to take two days off.

I stayed on profile until I was able to run day after day. I didn't want to have to be forced to run when my knee was not up to it or I felt I needed more time off than others.

I am healthy and been of profile but years, I am a pretty good runner and still today, when it's cold my knee is stiff, when I am seated at the movies or an airplane, it stiffens up.

My point is, stop being an ASS. You don't know what the Soldier is going through. Maybe he's riding it, maybe he's not. He's not doing anything wrong.
 
Posts: 468 | Registered: 08 November 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of LuckyLu
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Barbarian, I'm sorry for your injury.Your situation seems like a great example of how the system should work. I do not know the pain he is or is not in, but it irks me knowing that he could get points for a 300 PT test just by maxing pushups, situps and completing the walk.

I guess ultimately I should blame the system, and not the Soldier.


"America is great because she is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, she will cease to be great." - Eisenhower
 
Posts: 480 | Location: Around the world.... | Registered: 15 August 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of 98C40_35N40
posted Hide Post
quote:
King, great questions. I and my other NCO sat down with the Soldier and I asked him very pointed questions about his profile and how I perceived things to be. At this point, I think I'm just going to leave it alone even though I think it's BS. As far as I am aware we do not have the medical equipment needed to do an MRI on his knee, so for all we know he could be perfect.

He did say some things that made me wonder though. He said he didn't want to get reevaluated because if he got off of the profile and then got injured again, what would happen? I'm not sure what the difference would be between that happening now, or at the end of the five years.

He also said something about wanting to go Airborne, Air Assault, etc., and that those schools wouldn't let you attend on profile.

Strangely enough, a day or so after the sit-down I noticed he removed all of his Facebook posts about his workouts. Nothing about him running eight miles, sub 14 2-miles, etc.



Lu,

STOP making yourself look like a fool, seriously.

1. The medical professional gave the SM a profile, and is the only one allowed to re-evaluate. Additionally, another MEB process would have to be done to get the Perm downgraded.

2. Have you ever messed your knee up? Seriously messed it up? I have torn my MCL and even though I can run, sprint, and play sports NOW I fear daily that a wrong turn can cause my knee to give out. THIS fear, esp with knee issues, is CONSTANT for those who have been through it. Unless you have torn your ACL/PCL/MCL you have no idea what the rehab, and subsequent pain/fear is like. The SM is likely VERY concerned for long term health if the profile is lifted, etc.

3. The SM has a run at own pace and distance profile. let the SM RUN AT HIS OWN PACE AND DISTANCE! Too simple.

4. SM has a Alternate event marked for his APFT; then let the SM take the alternate event and so be it. YOU ARENT A DOCTOR, you don’t get to tell SM when and what to do for the APFT.

5. If the SM would like to go Airborne/Air Assault and then gets his profile lifted for that, then it is HIS choice to take that risk! It has nothing to do with you whatsoever.

6. He removed his posts about running from FB because you are ACTIVELY LOOKING to get him in trouble, even though he is doing nothing wrong!

7. How about instead of worrying about the APFT and the profile you decide to shift your focus to the SM's other discipline issues? Did it ever cross your mind that the SM is acting out/doing those minor things because you are CONSTANTLY on his ass about the profile?

If he is doing nothing wrong, and you STILL decide to pester him about this, anyone would get fed up and act out, especially an Junior Enlisted.

To put your post into perspective, I am a Senior Leader for the Army element at this Joint Command. I have numerous officers that have perm profiles who I know can run, and I have run with.

Do you think I walk up to them come APFT time and tell them they are shamming pieces of shit for not running when I know they can?

If I had the perm profile, as a SFC, and you saw me running, would you come up to me and get on your high horse about the situation? Would you try to tell me I was a POS for running but walking on the APFT? I think not.

You are taking your frustrations about other aspects of this SM's career/attitude/experiences and using those frustrations to try and hurt the Soldier somehow. The only thing you have to grasp at the time is the APFT issue.

If you spent the time working on the APFT issue on attempting to fix the SM's other shortcomings, the SM might straighten out and think you actually give a shit about him... but from your posts defending your attitude/actions and your lack of understanding what other people here are actually telling you, you will blow it all off and think you are more right than the other leaders here.

/rant


NCO's Lead The Way!

SFC Nick Martinez
B Co, 3rd MI BN (AE)
Camp Humphreys, KOR

“I am the punishment of God... If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.” ― Genghis Khan
 
Posts: 273 | Location: HQ J2, USSTRATCOM, Offutt AFB, NE | Registered: 20 April 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of LuckyLu
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SFC,

1. Agreed.

2. No I have not messed my knee up. Have I messed my back up, yes. Does my back still give me issues, yes. I live daily with the fear that POSSIBLY my back could give out, but I still do my best. If I was able to do tons of back exercises with a lot of weight my fear of injuring myself would probably go down significantly.

3. The SM does PT on his own.

4. I can't force the SM to run if his profile says otherwise

5. Agreed

6. I am not actively looking to get him in trouble, I am doing my best to ascertain if he is skirting the system. Seeing as how the issue isn't a black or white issue, I cannot say for sure if he is or not.

7. The two are not connected in any way, sorry. I started looking into this a week or so ago, his counselings were for previous months.


Do you think I walk up to them come APFT time and tell them they are shamming pieces of shit for not running when I know they can? Nope


- At what point is the Soldier gaming the system then? If they can do a Triathalon and are still on a 'No run for PT test' profile is that enough? Or should I just be happy that he's in great shape and not worry about it?

- I wanted to throw in there too that this Soldier has told us that during one workout he did 100 squats with various weights (more than I can lift). If this Soldier is able to do more than me why should I be running and he walking? To me it seems like his knee is more than capable of lasting on a PT test. Does that seem unreasonable to conclude?

I also wanted to say that even though this Soldier was rather saddened at us not recommending him for promotion until October/November, this morning his attitude was excellent and he said that he realized he needed to fix things and move on. I was very impressed.


"America is great because she is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, she will cease to be great." - Eisenhower
 
Posts: 480 | Location: Around the world.... | Registered: 15 August 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of Hellz
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4. I can't force the SM to run if his profile says otherwise

*why even bring up "force" the Soldier to run? that is unless you are trying to get him in trouble... which is what it sounds like.

6. I am not actively looking to get him in trouble, I am doing my best to ascertain if he is skirting the system. Seeing as how the issue isn't a black or white issue, I cannot say for sure if he is or not.

*actually it is very black and white. he has a profile, and you have no authority to say otherwise. you do not even have the authority to question it.

- At what point is the Soldier gaming the system then? If they can do a Triathalon and are still on a 'No run for PT test' profile is that enough? Or should I just be happy that he's in great shape and not worry about it?

*This Soldier sounds like he is handling himself pretty good. so maybe focus on some other areas where this SM might need help.

- I wanted to throw in there too that this Soldier has told us that during one workout he did 100 squats with various weights (more than I can lift). If this Soldier is able to do more than me why should I be running and he walking? To me it seems like his knee is more than capable of lasting on a PT test. Does that seem unreasonable to conclude?

* go get a medical degree, and alot more rank, then you can make a decision regarding this.

I also wanted to say that even though this Soldier was rather saddened at us not recommending him for promotion until October/November, this morning his attitude was excellent and he said that he realized he needed to fix things and move on. I was very impressed.

* i would try at this point to control any damage you may have done. Right now this SM thinks you are after him. He has not done anything wrong, and he should be told to continue with whatever work out routine that he is doing as it is obviously helping him.

Hell, maybe it sounds like he could be a great choice for leading some PT sessions. this will help him become a capable leader, and instill that HIS leaders have confidence in him.
 
Posts: 185 | Registered: 13 February 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of LuckyLu
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*why even bring up "force" the Soldier to run? that is unless you are trying to get him in trouble... which is what it sounds like.

- Because 98C40_35N40 said "SM has a Alternate event marked for his APFT; then let the SM take the alternate event and so be it. YOU ARENT A DOCTOR, you don’t get to tell SM when and what to do for the APFT." If you notice, he said, 'then let the SM take', which implies that I wasn't 'letting' him take his walk, which is untrue.

*actually it is very black and white. he has a profile, and you have no authority to say otherwise. you do not even have the authority to question it.

I would strongly disagree. I do have the authority to question it, how would I not? If a Soldier says that they have so much pain in their knee/back/etc that they can't even move, and then the next day I see them in the club dancing it up, I 100% have the authority to question it. To think otherwise is foolish. I would strongly disagree. I do have the authority to question it, how would I not? If a Soldier says that they have so much pain in their knee/back/etc that they can't even move, and then the next day I see them in the club dancing it up, I 100% have the authority to question it. To think otherwise is foolish.

*This Soldier sounds like he is handling himself pretty good. so maybe focus on some other areas where this SM might need help.

Agreed, we are already doing that.

* go get a medical degree, and alot more rank, then you can make a decision regarding this.

A degree means little to me. I have three pieces of paper with the word 'degree' on them, but I still know people with no papers that are smarter than me. Degrees do not make one smart or have common sense.

Hell, maybe it sounds like he could be a great choice for leading some PT sessions. this will help him become a capable leader, and instill that HIS leaders have confidence in him.

We are deployed and do PT sessions on our own as we are a 24-hour shop, so unfortunately this isn't really possible. We are deployed and do PT sessions on our own as we are a 24-hour shop, so unfortunately this isn't really possible.


"America is great because she is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, she will cease to be great." - Eisenhower
 
Posts: 480 | Location: Around the world.... | Registered: 15 August 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of Public_Health_Huh?
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by LuckyLu:
*why even bring up "force" the Soldier to run? that is unless you are trying to get him in trouble... which is what it sounds like.

- Because 98C40_35N40 said "SM has a Alternate event marked for his APFT; then let the SM take the alternate event and so be it. YOU ARENT A DOCTOR, you don’t get to tell SM when and what to do for the APFT." If you notice, he said, 'then let the SM take', which implies that I wasn't 'letting' him take his walk, which is untrue.

*actually it is very black and white. he has a profile, and you have no authority to say otherwise. you do not even have the authority to question it.

I would strongly disagree. I do have the authority to question it, how would I not? If a Soldier says that they have so much pain in their knee/back/etc that they can't even move, and then the next day I see them in the club dancing it up, I 100% have the authority to question it. To think otherwise is foolish.

*This Soldier sounds like he is handling himself pretty good. so maybe focus on some other areas where this SM might need help.

Agreed, we are already doing that.

* go get a medical degree, and alot more rank, then you can make a decision regarding this.

A degree means little to me. I have three pieces of paper with the word 'degree' on them, but I still know people with no papers that are smarter than me. Degrees do not make one smart or have common sense.

Hell, maybe it sounds like he could be a great choice for leading some PT sessions. this will help him become a capable leader, and instill that HIS leaders have confidence in him.

We are deployed and do PT sessions on our own as we are a 24-hour shop, so unfortunately this isn't really possible.


Ok, seriously? Seriously??
 
Posts: 200 | Location: Presidio of Monterey, California | Registered: 23 August 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of LuckyLu
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Yes, and yes.


"America is great because she is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, she will cease to be great." - Eisenhower
 
Posts: 480 | Location: Around the world.... | Registered: 15 August 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of Soldier60
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Why do you keep bringing up this 300 thing? Your Soldier does not get a 300 if he does the walk. He only recieves points for the PU and SU events.

Per FM 7-22

There is no point score annotated on the DA Form
705 for the performance of alternate aerobic events. These events are scored as a GO or NO GO.
 
Posts: 145 | Registered: 09 November 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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