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posted
I have a soldier with a 90 day Temporary Profile. It says she is only allowed to do the PUs, no alternate events. Her profile expired 2 months ago and she is in her recovery period. Prior to this, she failed her APFT and was flagged. She wanted to take the PT test so the flag can be removed.

When she took the test, she took the PUs and passed along with the 2.5 mi alternate walk. When asked why she did the walk, she said it was because she wanted to make sure no one gave her any issues about taking or not completing the test. She was told she only needed to take the PUs since she was still on profile (or rather, in the recovery phase).

The unit graded her APFT and since she did not complete the SUs, she received a 0 for this portion. She was not supposed to take the alternative event but since she did, they went ahead and gave her 60 points for this. They also entered her PUs points. However, she disputed the SUs points because she claimed that according to the *new* regulations, if she does 2 out of 3 events and she is on a profile stating that she is not allowed to do the event, she would automatically receive 60 points for that event. I've read FM 21-20 and AR 40–501, but I am unable to locate anything that states this. I am aware of how she would be able to score for promotion purposes but this does not apply to her.

I've approached our unit HR and he showed me that even if he try inputting her scores into the system, it would not be possible to give her anything for the SU event. Because she is on a no-SU, no-Run profile, the system automatically grays out the SU section. He was able to enter her score for the alternate event.

It would have been best that she takes the full APFT when she is off her recovery phase so there is no dispute, but she was not assigned to me until the very morning of her AFPT (go figure). Is there any regulation(s) or FM regarding the scoring for when you are exempt from an event? I would appreciate any feedback. Thanks!
 
Posts: 2 | Registered: 16 November 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of AutobahnSHO
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EDITED OUT, see below.

Sounds like she's trying to play the system...

(She shouldn't have failed the APFT- if you're hurt, go to the doctor in a timely fashion. Don't wait until you fail the APFT to go get help..)

This message has been edited. Last edited by: AutobahnSHO,


Be Proud of what you do- and do it Well! ~me
 
Posts: 5281 | Location: Ft Gordon (Again!!!) :-| | Registered: 22 October 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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Let me know if I am wrong on this. I believe by regulation you can not give a for record APFT on profile/recovery. So the APFT that she took was just a diagnostic/asessment. If this is right, she must take the APFT once her recovery is done and the Flag situation should be adressed at that time. I just recently dealt with this and this what the chain of command made me do when I was recovering from shoulder surgery.
 
Posts: 9 | Location: Fort Leonard Wood, MO | Registered: 29 August 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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By you wording, the Soldier had a 90 day profile.

From AR 350-1,

1-21, d. (4)...

(4) Personnel with permanent medical profiles that preclude participation in the pushup or situp event will take the remaining events if a physician or physician’s assistant approves. The 2-mile run event, or an approved alternate test event as outlined in FM 21–20, must be taken if the test is for record. The alternate test is for soldiers with permanent physical profiles that prevent them from running 2 miles. Soldiers with temporary profiles of long duration (more than 3 months) may also take an alternate test if approved by the commander and health care personnel. Soldiers must be given 3 months to prepare for the alternate test from either the date of the profile or the date recommended by health care personnel.

It does not appear your Soldier meets the criteria for an Alternate Event on the APFT, and such a APFT test cannot be for Record unless a 2-mile or Alternate is taken. As this is a Temproary Profile, the Soldier would be required to meet the requirement for the Alternate event, which the Soldier does not.

All in all, I do not believe the APFT can be counted as a Record test and therefore you cannot remove the previous flag.
 
Posts: 209 | Registered: 25 March 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of Go Ordnance
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The way I see it is, if she wants to take a record APFT, then she has to give up her profile, which then she would have to do the regular PU, SU, 2-mile run. If not, she must wait until her recovery is up in order to take a record APFT and then have her flag lifted if she passes.

If what you are saying is true, then I agree with infantrytosignal, she does not qualify for the alternate event since her profile was NOT MORE THEN 90 days.

The only event that has an alternate event is the 2-mile run, therefor if she does not complete the SU portion she is an automatic failure. Now if her profile states no SU's, then she shouldn't be taking an APFT in the first place, record or not.




"If you do not stand by me at my worst, you WILL NOT stand by me at my best."
 
Posts: 719 | Location: Fort Lee | Registered: 18 May 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of AutobahnSHO
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Okay, I change my original thoughts.

I agree with the others,
and still say she sounds like she's trying to play the system and should just have to suck it up now....


Be Proud of what you do- and do it Well! ~me
 
Posts: 5281 | Location: Ft Gordon (Again!!!) :-| | Registered: 22 October 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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Thank you all very much for your input and help! I've been searching days for the AR/FM on this. It has bothered me not to find anything on how to score for exempted events and how to deal with the recovery portion of a 90 day temporary profile.
 
Posts: 2 | Registered: 16 November 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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Exempted events are given 60 points.Alternate events are done the same way with one exception.

When going for a promotion (record not diagnostic) the average of the PU and SU are averaged and that is the score for the alternate aerobic event.

For example on a PT test points for a soldier taking a record would look like this

PU= 87
SU= 93
2.5 mi walk= 90
 
Posts: 72 | Location: Ft. We-Gotcha | Registered: 29 October 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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as the poster above stated... events not completed due to profile are given a 60.

My last 3 record PT tests i took were 2.5 mile walk only as i had a no run no PU no SU P3 profile.


But as stated by another user above temp profiles are not allowed to perform record events as alternates, so the soldier in question should not have been given a chance to take the APFT to begin with.

I wonder what the whole story is about this soldier... is the unit messing her over or is she trying to buck the system... both could be the case...


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Posts: 3 | Registered: 19 April 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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Sounds like someone wanted a flag off for something but is still on profile. It's pretty black and white in the FM...temporary profile no record APFT for up to 90 days after profile ends.
 
Posts: 68 | Registered: 12 March 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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I am a soldier who is on a temperary profile for my wrist. Here is the history...During my last deployment I fell and fractured my scaphoid, and due to our location there was not an orthopedic surgon available, so after seeing numerous doctors at the many medical facilities through iraq, who just casted and left it. I had a follow up with a referral to a civilian doctor off post. Who said it was malformed, and I would HAVE to have surgery. So I had surgery and put on a temp profile, until I could get the pins out of my wrist. Fast forward to present day, I just had the pins removed and the PA put me on a 90 day temp profile for no upper body exercises, no sprints or running (except at own pace, and no PU to avoid re-injury. However, the PA has approved an alt. event for running, etc.

My question is am I still able to take a record AFPT without completing the PU, or do I have to wait until my recovery time is up, and then Test. Any information would be appreciated. The underlying reason for this question is I am re-classing to another MOS and would like to make sure I can provide all required documents, and an APFT is all I am missing...once again thanks.
 
Posts: 9 | Location: Fort Irwin, CA | Registered: 03 September 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of LadieJA74
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its in chapter 14 of the FM use the find button and type in profile for the word search. but if she had no alternate on the temp then she couldnt take the alternate! it just bothers me that this is allowed for a record apft!! did they have any idea how many people will use this to try to get over? i been broken since AIT i tried to take a record apft so i could graduate an come home to my children till i was shot down as soon as i step foot on the feild because i had a temp no run and a alternate! they told me go get a perm profile which i did and was able to take a make up apft a few days before graduation! i still cant run and have a perm! i am truly at alost for words on this new reg!!
 
Posts: 10 | Registered: 15 October 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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Alternate events are for permanent profiles only. Bottom line: during recovery you do not take any type of PT test - not a diag, not a record. Once recovery is over, THEN you take a PT test and you should get a diagnostic first.

I'm not sure how that 90 day profile soldier thought she could do an alternate and not her situps. If her profile expired 2 months prior, then she has NO profile against situps or running.
 
Posts: 68 | Registered: 12 March 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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This is from TC 3-22.20 (which I'm surprised no one has quoted since it details the APFT)

quote:
A-41. Soldiers with temporary physical profiles must take a regular three event APFT after the profile has expired. Soldiers with temporary profiles of long duration (more than three months) may take an alternate aerobic event as determined by the commander with input from health-care personnel. Once the profile has been lifted, the Soldier must be given twice the length of the profile (not to exceed 90 days) to train for the regular three event APFT. If a regularly scheduled APFT occurs during the profile period, the Soldier should be given a mandatory make-up date for the APFT.


Bold by me. Notice the word "must" in that sentence, it makes it not an option. She must be given 90 days (since twice the length of her profile would exceed that time) before she can take an APFT, and it will be the full three event. 60 days after her profile expires is not valid.

Watchmen2010, this applies to you a well; you must wait 90 days after your profile expires before you can take a record APFT.


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Posts: 941 | Location: Joint Base Lewis-McChord, WA | Registered: 09 February 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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