I really need a 4187 example on a school drop, Im clueless on it and never have done one, My chain of command is in the same boat as me, We have heard of it just never done one. I went to brigade retention and they say they will get back with me its been 3 days, I need to drop this as early as possible. Can anyone help me out with a example da 4187 of one, and what I all need, I have the army regulation and have read of it and have a idea of how it goes, just want to do it right. Any help please!! Email is email@example.com Thanks guys
5–16. Early separation to further education Soldiers may be discharged or released from active duty for the convenience of the Government, up to 90 days before ETS, in order to attend a specific term at college, university, vocational school, or technical school. a. Soldiers serving initial enlistments of less than 3 years, members of the ARNGUS or USAR serving on ADT, and former senior ROTC cadets ordered to active duty because of breaches of contract are ineligible for separation under this paragraph. b. To qualify for early separation, eligible soldiers must— (1) Not be mission essential to their assigned organizations, as determined by commanders concerned. (2) Clearly establish that the specific school term for which they seek early separation is academically the most opportune time for them to begin or resume their education, and that delay of school enrollment until normal ETS would cause undue personal hardship. (3) Provide a statement from an appropriate school official (for example, a registrar or director of admissions) indicating acceptance for enrollment (without qualification or in a probationary status) in a full-time resident course of instruction. The statement must also reflect that the latest acceptable registration date for the school term falls within the 90–day period preceding the soldier’s ETS. (4) Show that they are able to pay, or have already paid, school entry fees. c. The college or university must offer courses of instruction leading to an associate, baccalaureate, or higher degree and must be approved by the Department of Veterans’ Affairs. The vocational or technical school must offer a course of instruction of no less than 3 months’ duration and must be approved by the Department of Veterans’ Affairs. d. The effective date of early separation under this paragraph normally will not be earlier than 10 days prior to the date classes convene, except when soldiers may be separated up to 30 days prior to the date classes convene if evidence is submitted that the 10-day period is clearly insufficient. This is not intended as authority to permit separation a full 30 days prior to class starting date in every case but to provide a reasonable latitude in justifiable cases to authorize separation on a date that will give the soldier adequate time to register and enter the school on time. Examples include soldiers returning from overseas and those who must move their families to the school location. e. Accrued leave will be used to the maximum extent possible, as transition leave, in conjunction with early separation under this paragraph. f. For characterization of service, see paragraph 5–1. g. Commanders specified in paragraph 1–19 are authorized to order separation under this paragraph. The criteria in chapter 1, section VII, will govern whether soldiers will be released from AD with transfer to the IRR, or discharged. h. Combining this paragraph with other early release programs to effect separation more than 90 days before ETS is not authorized.
I can give you an example but I'm not sure how good it is because it was kicked back a few times I know. I put it in probably 2 months ago and its still working the chain.
Under thru, to, and from.... its different depending on your unit, you need to find out what goes there. Try your training room or transition office possibly might know.
Under section III on DA 4187 you put "Other" and "School Drop" and something along the lines of
1. IAW AR 635-200, paragraph 5-16, I request early separation from the military due to acceptance at (College you were accepted to).
2. JUSTIFICATION: SM has a ETS date of 13-November-2010, however he has been accepted for the fall semester at (you were accepted to a school, right?) beginning 23-August-2010 and wishes to resettle near it's campus using the Federal Housing Tax Credit Program's extension for servicemembers overseas during its expiration. (this is just what I put since its what I plan on doing)
The following information is provided: a) Current DEROS: 13 NOVEMBER 2010 b) ETS: 13 November 2010 c) Requested ETS: 16 August 2010 d) BASD: 03 August 2005 e) Number of Command Sponsored Dependents: N/A f) Soldier is currently not on assignment. (most of that crap is on your ERB) ENCL.
ERB, Acceptance Letter to School with start date, AR 635-200 Para 5-16
If you dont know anything about filling out 4187s you need a program called pureedge to type up and print the 4187 if you dont have any highspeed NCOs or friends in the training room. You also need your acceptance letter specifically giving a date (your college will probably type one up if yours doesnt have a specific date for the semester)
My commander recommended disapproval, fortunately something like that has to go up so far and it was approved (so far). Hopefully your commander doesnt think he needs you or you might not be so lucky (beware the automatic promotion that you qualified for 6 months ago and your chain of command all the sudden decides they need you promoted 6 months before you ETS). I'm still on edge for the result. Don't expect anyone to help you with it if your unit is shorthanded on your MOS but you never know what the bigger scheme is. Maybe they need to get rid of soldiers sooner so they can get people with longevity. Afterall, its only 90 freakin days max.
My question is about this line in the reg... e. Accrued leave will be used to the maximum extent possible, as transition leave, in conjunction with early separation under this paragraph.
The transition office and what I'm reading tells me that this means you can still take terminal leave after your ETS is changed. But I had a roomie who used a school drop years ago who always told me that is Leave was eaten up upon getting hte school drop. I've read the same thing online but I dont know if they know what theyre talking about exactly. It seems obvious to me with the language in the regulation that this means terminal leave is to be used to transition to from soldier to student. But why the reg would mention that seems weird. Considering you're not allowed to go to be a student using your GI bill before your actual discharge it makes sense for leave to be a buffer. That would be hilarious though getting a paycheck still and going to college with housing allowance.
ok well i have 18 months left in the service and i want to start my school drop and im still a little confused about this whole thing, i get out april 27,2013, but my school starts January 14, 2013 and you have to have a minimum of 10 days prior of the school starting so that puts me 90 days which would take me to January 27,2013 but i need terminal leave of 23 days so i can make the requirements to put me out of the army by January 4, 2013. Is this possible?
I'm actually in almost the identical situation you are. I ETS 16 MAY 2013 but school starts 10 JAN 2013. With the College Drop I'll ETS 16 FEB 2013 which leaves me with about 40 days I'll have to make up with Terminal leave of some sort. I've come up with a few COAs for myself. First, depending how far your school is from where you're currently stationed you could try to schedule all your classes for Tues-Thurs and use leave TUES-WED-THURS each week so you can attend school. You'd still have to go to work on Mon and Friday for a few weeks, but whatever. Second, do the same schedule but take 3 weeks leave come back for a week and then take 3 more weeks leave. You'd miss 2 days of lecture but most of the time professors will work with you especially if you can explain your situation to them. That is what I've come up with so far. You'd have to change my plan to fit your schedule but it could be done. From what I understand though, you cannot ETS with a college drop and terminal leave combined more than 90 days before your original ETS. It leaves guys like us stuck but be resourceful and let me know what you find out. Best of luck.
has anyone found any information that would allow for a release from AD or transfer to IRR sooner than 90 days? I understand that the typical early release to attend school clearly states no more than 90 days, but there has to be a way to request an exception to that policy. How do I request release from AD from the Secretary of the Army?
I may be in the same boat, appyling for GTG option, yet if I don't make it, i want to ETS early (ETS: AUG 2013) to go to school up to a year early, Ive been accepted for the AUG 2012 semster from my school, cna I just place a 4187 for this? Or do this for the Winter 2013 semster?
-SPC Pérez, N 25B1P / 11B1P
Posts: 9 | Location: Seoul, Korea | Registered: 19 August 2009
Maybe I can help some of you guys. My buddy just got out with one, and Im finishing mine up. For the record there are a lot of soldiers catching wind of this and just want out early and some of us are really trying to make a semester at a University, not just trying to jump out early.
Ok, they will bring your ETS date forward 90 days. the day classes start has to be 10 days before that. THe reason for this is because leave is never guarenteed. You could need to take emergency leave or what not. So classes have to start in that 90 day period and at least have 10 days to get to where the school is and start classes or they will not sign off on it. Your leave is your leave. Once your ETS date is moved thats that. You can drop a leave form for your terminal leave like any normal ETS date. So if your ETS is moved up 90 days. And they sign off for you to use 60 days terminal leave. Then your out that much earlier. Dont believe me? Then dont. Thats all there is to it. But you need to be serious about the school thing and remember you have to show proof that you can register and start classes within that 90 day time period, leave and how much of it you have means nothing. It has nothing to do with it. It all has to do with that 90 days. Hope this helps.
Forgot to add, the reason leave has really nothing to do with it is. The last stop for your ETS to change is army HRC, when it gets there they look at the class start date and what date you want your ETS moved to. Once they approve it, your ETS is moved. Once again having nothing to do with leave. Leave being used to its fullest is simply saying that you will use your leave to do what we all do when we get out. move home get settled in and continue to get paid while we get our life in order. Good luck.
so how long does this whole process usually take. like say if i turned my packet in to my training/orderly room and they took it up and everyone in the CoC approves then as "sgthassomeanswers" said it goes up to HRC how long does that take up there at HRC.