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Picture of SSG Cueball
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I know some people think that a permanent profile is for people that are trying to buck the system. Heres what i have to say to that grow the f up i know a soldier that can't run because IRAQ messed his foot up things missing but this soldier is to me one of the best damn soldier in the US ARMY he does his job above the standards and is one of the best leaders in the ARMY he didn't want to get this profile but he knows at this point he can't run but he's tring and will overcome it in the future. AND HE IS NOT "COMBAT INEFFECTIVE".

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SSG Cueball,


IRAQ AGAIN WOO HOO!
 
Posts: 109 | Location: Fort Hood Texas | Registered: 15 September 2005Report This Post

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Checking in the current versons of AR 350-1 and 21-20 the relevant information is as follows:

quote:
The APFT consists of push-ups, sit-ups, and a 2-mile run, done in that order on the same day. (See repetition and time guidelines in FM 21-20 .) For soldiers on a permanent profile, a record test must include an aerobic event. The only approved aerobic events are the 2-mile run, 800-yard swim, 6.2-mile bike ride (stationary or track), or the 2.5-mile walk. Testing is prescribed for all soldiers as follows:


(States what an APFT is comprised of, and that there must be an Aerobic event. I have 2 soldiers who can ONLY take an aerobic event)

quote:
Personnel with permanent medical profiles that preclude participation in the pushup or situp event will take the remaining events if a physician or physician's assistant approves. The 2-mile run event, or an approved alternate test event as outlined in FM 21-20, must be taken if the test is for record. The alternate test is for soldiers with permanent physical profiles that prevent them from running 2 miles. Soldiers with temporary profiles of long duration (more than 3 months) may also take an alternate test if approved by the commander and health care personnel. Soldiers must be given 3 months to prepare for the alternate test from either the date of the profile or the date recommended by health care personnel.


(States the soldier is exempt from the push-up or situp event if the profile prevents them from taking it. Also clears solders on TEMPORARY profile to take an APFT if cleared by their commander and if the profile is 3 months long)

Last but not least, how do you score this mess?

quote:
(a) Those soldiers with permanent physical profiles for the sit-up and/or push-ups events will be granted 60 points for each event waived and use the actual score for each event taken and must qualify on the 2-mile run or approved alternate test according to FM 21-20 .

(b) Effective 1 Apr 95, soldiers taking an alternate event for the 2-mile run receiving a GO, receive a score for that event equal to the average of the scores for the other two events.


I realize that the above is talking about permanent profiles. For the purpose of a board I have seen the same applied to temp profiles of 3 months with the commander's approval.

For the purposes of APFT average calculations for administrative purposes any event not taken is not counted in my unit. Each event is then averaged and totaled to get the overall averages.
 
Posts: 6 | Location: Ft. Hood | Registered: 29 November 2005Report This Post

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The following is copy and pasted from AR 350-1 (13 January 2006) Page 12:

Soldiers on permanent profile or a temporary profile of long duration (more than 3
months) will receive point scores for only those events taken. For example, if a Soldier has a permanent profile for the
2–mile run event and score 70 points in the push–up, 85 points in the sit–up and receives a “GO” for the 2.5–mile
Walk, he will receive a score of 155 points in the total score column of the DA Form 705 (see FM 21–20 for APFT
scoring).


I'm assuming this was one of the Jan 2006 changes. Where can I find information regarding how scores are calculated for boards and promotion? or is there no difference?
 
Posts: 1 | Registered: 24 April 2006Report This Post

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My only issue and possible question is... What if you can't do the Pushups but max the other two events. I have a Profile because I dislocated my shoulder and am still waiting for surgery (over a year later). I took the Profile so I could take a PT test and attend a school, I want to get fixed because I over worked my shoulder and messed it up badly and needed to prove to myself and my command I still keep in shape even without using my arm much.

I was told that I would max out my Promotion Points at 260 for PT because I couldn't take that event and from looking through the Regs I think that is correct, but would like a third oppinion. Thanks.


Live Life All The Time
 
Posts: 295 | Location: Somewhere out there | Registered: 25 September 2003Report This Post

Picture of Go2Grl
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Kenkaru:
The following is copy and pasted from AR 350-1 (13 January 2006) Page 12:

Soldiers on permanent profile or a temporary profile of long duration (more than 3
months) will receive point scores for only those events taken. For example, if a Soldier has a permanent profile for the
2–mile run event and score 70 points in the push–up, 85 points in the sit–up and receives a “GO” for the 2.5–mile
Walk, he will receive a score of 155 points in the total score column of the DA Form 705 (see FM 21–20 for APFT
scoring).


I'm assuming this was one of the Jan 2006 changes. Where can I find information regarding how scores are calculated for boards and promotion? or is there no difference?


If you are looking to see how the APFT is calculated for promotion go to AR 600-8-19 the Promotions Reg. It is a great tool.

An Old Promotions NCO
 
Posts: 6 | Registered: 07 June 2006Report This Post

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Personally, I think it boils down to ego stroking...sure if you have no knee or leg ailments and can run like the wind "more power to ya". However, there are those who actually take thier injuries and the future use of these limbs into consideration when accepting a Permanent profile. In my case; I have waited 4 yrs to pursue a P2 profile...and sacrificed a very large chunk of my professional development and quite possibly the full fuctioning capability of both knees. I am not planning to retire in the military, I do plan on being able to run and play with with my daughter when she's old enough "without grimmacing in pain".

think of like this:

1. The Army *will* use you to satisfy it's needs and demands.

2. An outstanding 2 mile run time of 12:00 min flat is commendable...but it's not faster than a 7.62 mil round.

3. There is a fine line between "Hooah, I'm a bad ass"... and "Arrgh, I'm a broke ass"!

4. A soldier with a P2 in your platoon in the rear is a dirt bag, but a soldier with a P2 downrange is your eyes at the 6 "covering your ass"

5."It's your career, take control of it" = "It's your body, take care of it."

A few things that make you go Hmmmmm.


The backbone of the Army....has always been the E-4 Corps.
 
Posts: 54 | Registered: 20 February 2006Report This Post

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i think it f**ked up some of you think that these soldiers are lieing about being hurt like the mp desk sgt what would you know about being hurt besides paper cuts you recieve im a 11b with a p2 profile you telling me my hips aint messed up i can still do my job and your job better then you i score a 300 regardless of profile status you ever tried to do the 2.5 mile walk i bet you cant even do the 12 mile ruck march under 3hrs like us 11 b so please keep your dumb ass comments to your self and stop judgeing these soldiers they might be lagit
 
Posts: 2 | Registered: 16 November 2008Report This Post

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Okay, I understand how you feel about soldiers who get permanent profiles but there is one thing you have to remember...Those profiles need to be recommended by one doctor and approved by the head doctor at the clinic or hospital. You can't fake an injury to get a pp. I have a P2 for my knees. No, I didn't injure them in Iraq, I just happenned to be fat growing up and very inactive. It caught up with me 3 years into the Army considering I have NO cartilage in my knees now. Just because there are some soldiers that choose to be all "Hooah" and run their butts off when there in the same situation as I am, that's on them. I don't intend on staying the Army for my whole life. I get ONE body my whole life and I don't feel like I'm less of a soldier because I don't run a 2 mile APFT every six months. Or because I can't participate in Battalion or Brigade runs. Want to think I'm a shammer, fine go ahead. I'll just hope you never end up my supervisor. I work my ass of on my PT tests and finish my 2.5 mile walk in 28 minutes when I have 36 minutes to complete it in.

I personally don't care that it's a GO/NO GO system. But then again, I'm just glad that I don't have the pain daily that I used to whenever I ran farther than a quarter of a mile.

However I DO agree with punishing those who abide there profile only during work hours. I have a friend who takes narcotic pain pills for his messed up back (for which he doesn't run) yet whenever it's sports day, he's out there playing softball or basketball whenever he feels like it. Personally if he was my soldier, he'd have to decide if he's hurt or not. I don't run at all. Hopefully in the future though, I can take my time and build my body back up to where I can run.

Just like SPCA said, it's all about whose more HOOAH than the next. Sorry, if I'm hurt or sick, I'm going to sick call. Kiss my butt. I've been offered quarters lots of times but unless I'm contagious or on my death bed, I refuse to take it. If my unit needs me for a mission, I'll be there. But if my left knee is three times the size as my right one, there's a problem. And I'm going to take care of it. I feel bad for those junior enlisted who are too scared to go to sick call because they don't want their NCO to give them crap. Then they end up with stress fractures that take 6 months to heal when they could have gone when the pain started and been better in two weeks.


Google is your friend!
 
Posts: 162 | Location: Fort McPherson, GA | Registered: 26 August 2006Report This Post

Picture of SGT Moss
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Hey there MP Desk SGT I just wanted to let you know that not all Permanent profiles are shit bags and the reg still means we have to get 100% in the other 2 events I have 63 pins 4 plates and 3 lacing wires in my right arm and I have had my shoulder on my left worked on completely twice I cant do push ups but I have never missed a field problem or deployment and I consistently have many different jobs in the company as the Chemical NCOs so just cause I am on a permanent profile does that mean I am a shit bag?
quote:
Originally posted by MP desk SGT:
You got me.
I was just venting a little bit. I understand the need for profiles and my previous post was a personal opinion and not my professional one. I just get frustrated when I (we) cannot get the mission done becouse of a dirtbag soldier that is riding a profile. Take for example, the soldier that has a "no running" profile, when it comes to PT ooohhh nnoooo "I cant run SGT." but at 1900 you catch him at the gym playing friggin basketball. (art. 15 you bet!!!) That same soldier will use this alternate scoring system to get over and get a great PT score. Profiles are in place for a reason and I take that into consideration, however its a few dirtbags that mess it up for the rest of the soldiers that really need that profile. You understand I'm sure.
As far as the range/glasses thing; I dont know where I was going with that either. Just trying to make a point I guess. I do feel that there should be a scoring system for each event. I think I will make that a pet project and do a little research, mabye see how far I can take it up.
 
Posts: 7 | Location: Ft Polk LA(Iraq) | Registered: 13 December 2008Report This Post

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Yea some of us had no other choice but to get a permanent profile if we wanted to stay in. Remember everyone is not made the same and some people break down before others. But from what I have seen with me included. While i may not be able to run all day and night. I will go above and beyond the call of duty in other areas.
 
Posts: 629 | Registered: 19 July 2007Report This Post

Picture of FIFTYCRUSHPLAN
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ya good point the army may think we are machines but we are not!


Get Some!
 
Posts: 565 | Location: Fort Carson | Registered: 25 April 2008Report This Post

Picture of Smittaayy
posted Hide Post
quote:
not all Permanent profiles are shit bags


Yeah, and not all people with permanent profiles are actually "broken". Take me, for example. I have one for my 'betes, and it doesnt restrict me from doing anything. So basically, its like a paper ball and chain hahaha! Kidding. But I can do every event, and I DO every event... and I max every event. There. There's your permanent profile 300 PT score.


____________________________________________________


http://www.facebook.com/home.p...93539992&ref=profile
 
Posts: 1300 | Location: Fort Sill, OK | Registered: 11 February 2005Report This Post

Picture of Smittaayy
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BTW, fiftycrush and SGT Moss... those are some highspeed little name plate thingys ya got there. Gotta get me one of those...
 
Posts: 1300 | Location: Fort Sill, OK | Registered: 11 February 2005Report This Post

Picture of FIFTYCRUSHPLAN
posted Hide Post
ya i have to admit i saw SGT Moss' and then i went to the website and got my own its actually a cool little community.


Get Some!
 
Posts: 565 | Location: Fort Carson | Registered: 25 April 2008Report This Post

Picture of FIFTYCRUSHPLAN
posted Hide Post
i see what your saying smittaayy not everyone deserves a permanent profile, for example i have whats called chronic excertional compartment syndrome, basically when i run my foot goes numb well if i run like once a week its fine, i mean i can sprint all day but that once a week is good enough i still pass the apft, but ya i think they are abused a little too much, oh well i just try to look out for my self and people who care.


Get Some!
 
Posts: 565 | Location: Fort Carson | Registered: 25 April 2008Report This Post
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