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Picture of Okla Reservist
posted
I'm an E-4 pursuing my direct commission. My question is the pay scale difference in O-1 & O-1E. The pay chart says for those with 4+ years of active duty as enlisted. I have 2 years active & 5 in the national guard. An officer buddy of mine (was enlisted with me when on active duty) said he thought that reserve & guard time would count towards qualifying for O-1E. Can anyone else confirm that?

Thanks!


"Try not to draw the enemy's fire. It irritates everyone around you."
 
Posts: 79 | Location: Oklahoma City, OK | Registered: 04 June 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of PA_in_2ID
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You still get raises every 2 yrs in the NG right?

What does your LES say at the TOP-MIDDLE?

If it says > 4 you would fall under O1E

If it says < 4 you would fall under 01
 
Posts: 548 | Location: Camp Hovey, Korea | Registered: 23 November 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of DoubleDuece
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The AT, ADSW, and any other ACTIVE DUTY time that you occur in Reserve status counts. You will probably not get the O1E pay. I had a SSG doing the exact same thing and he came up a couple months short and he had significantly more time in than you. But hey who knows, check your points detail on the HRC my record portal to verify.


"War is an act of force, and to the application of that force there is no limit. Each of the advisaries forces the hand of the other, and in a recipricol action results in which there can be no limit..."
Carl von Clausewitz, on war, 1833
 
Posts: 290 | Location: Fort Riley, KS | Registered: 20 May 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of PA_in_2ID
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Are you pursuing your direct commission into the Reserves? Or Active Duty?
 
Posts: 548 | Location: Camp Hovey, Korea | Registered: 23 November 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of DoubleDuece
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quote:
Originally posted by OC_ipap:
You still get raises every 2 yrs in the NG right?

What does your LES say at the TOP-MIDDLE?

If it says > 4 you would fall under O1E

If it says < 4 you would fall under 01


Even if he went AC, that would be wrong. You still get paid at 8 years even if 6 were spent in the reserves.


"War is an act of force, and to the application of that force there is no limit. Each of the advisaries forces the hand of the other, and in a recipricol action results in which there can be no limit..."
Carl von Clausewitz, on war, 1833
 
Posts: 290 | Location: Fort Riley, KS | Registered: 20 May 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of PA_in_2ID
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by DoubleDuece:
quote:
Originally posted by OC_ipap:
You still get raises every 2 yrs in the NG right?

What does your LES say at the TOP-MIDDLE?

If it says > 4 you would fall under O1E

If it says < 4 you would fall under 01


Even if he went AC, that would be wrong. You still get paid at 8 years even if 6 were spent in the reserves.


I know, you still get paid as 8 yrs. (even in 6 were NG and 2 were AC). You might only have 2.5 or 3.0 towards AC retirement. But you would get paid at 8 yrs, right?

Hence when you went O1...would it not then also be as 8 yrs?

Whats the differance? He might only be at like 2.5 towards AC retirement..but the paybracket would be O1E w/ 8 yrs right?

I know many a co-worker who have lets say only 4,5,6 yrs towards retirement...but are getting like 10,12,15 yr pay. (due to prior reserve time, etc)

If my info was wrong Okla..i apoligize if i confused it even more so. You will get your answer here 99 % of the time.

DD, you confused me...or heck actually maybe I confused myself. I don't know jack about the reserves tho.

Can a SME clarify?
 
Posts: 548 | Location: Camp Hovey, Korea | Registered: 23 November 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of DoubleDuece
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Sure,
To qualify for the O1E Pay you must look at the pay tables located here:

http://www.dfas.mil/militarypay/2006militarypaytables/2007_Web_Pay_Table.pdf

Note 3 states: “Applicable to O-1 to O-3 with at least 4 years and 1 day of active duty or more than 1460 points as a warrant and/or enlisted member. See Department of Defense Financial Management Regulations for
more detailed explanation on who is eligible for this special basic pay rate.”

This means that unless he has 1460 points or 4 years and 1 day of active duty he will not qualify for the enhanced officer pay rate.

In the reserves you accrue points for participation and retirement. Usually you get 2 points for every day of “drill” and 1 point for every day of active duty (to include Annual Training, ADSW, ect). Normally Reserve soldier accrue about 80 pts a year including the 15 membership points. Soldiers cannot receive more than 365/ 366 points in a year/ leap year.

So in this scenario this soldier will be getting paid at the O1 rate for 6 years of service unless he has been mobilized (Activated) for at least 2 of the 5 years of National Guard time plus the two years of RA.

The difference between O1 and O1E at 6 years of service is $211.20.

Does that clarify things?


"War is an act of force, and to the application of that force there is no limit. Each of the advisaries forces the hand of the other, and in a recipricol action results in which there can be no limit..."
Carl von Clausewitz, on war, 1833
 
Posts: 290 | Location: Fort Riley, KS | Registered: 20 May 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of PA_in_2ID
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It does clarify for me, Thank you for squaring me away w/ the 1460pts, I obviously never knew. (the little i know is all all active stuff)

Q. Soldiers that are active duty who have an adjusted BASD of like 6-7 yrs ago, but are getting paid for lets say 12 yrs. What would that be a product of? IRR? Reserve Time? Or is it JUST the O1E - 01E that has the 1460 rule, and everything else is just by yrs in...regardless of what component?
 
Posts: 548 | Location: Camp Hovey, Korea | Registered: 23 November 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of DoubleDuece
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The O1, O1E is only for the 1460 rule. All other pay is regarded in terms of years of service whether it is RA, Reserve, or IRR.

For example:
If a soldier does 4 years of RA then transfers to the IRR for completion of Active Duty contract for 2 years and then goes into the reserve for 2 years. At this point the soldier has 8 years for pay. If at that time they decides to go back on RA status he will have 8 years for pay but his Basic Active Service Date (BASD) will be changed to reflect 4 years of RA time plus the Active duty time he spent on reserves (AT, ADSW ect, not drill attendance). The BASD is in relation to Active Federal Service (AFS) that the soldier has completed towards an Active Duty Retirement.

Now if you turn things around and the soldier decides to stay reserve till twenty, their RA time as well as Reserve Time counts towards Reserve retirement. So they would have 6 years towards reserve retirement. Their IRR time may as well but only if they complete 50 points during those years they are in the IRR. The easiest method for earning points in the IRR is correspondence points (new, not ones you already completed). You may also volunteer for AT or short tours around the world (not just Iraq).

Now you know. Go Joe!


"War is an act of force, and to the application of that force there is no limit. Each of the advisaries forces the hand of the other, and in a recipricol action results in which there can be no limit..."
Carl von Clausewitz, on war, 1833
 
Posts: 290 | Location: Fort Riley, KS | Registered: 20 May 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of PA_in_2ID
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Thanks, I learned something new.

The "light" just came on.
 
Posts: 548 | Location: Camp Hovey, Korea | Registered: 23 November 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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If anyone ever mentions anything about O1E O-1E eligibility to anyone, direct them to look at the following:

DoD Financial Management Regulation 7000.14-R, Chapter 7A, 010103 "Active Enlisted and/or Warrant Officer Service for Members in Basic Pay Grades O-1E, O-2E, OR O-3E," Part A, Subsection 6 "Creditable Service for Certain Commissioned Officers"

In accordance with Title 10, Subtitle E, Part II, Chapter 1223, § 12732 outlines specifically Someone DOES NOT NEED to have 4 years worth of active duty time. A soldier only needs 1460 retirement points as calculated in accordance with § 12732.The points accumulated via the Army Correspondence Courses DO NOT COUNT.Membership points are calculated within § 12732 and are not specifically excluded within Title 10, so they do count. Additionally, any points accumulated prior to accepting a commission (the OCS program itself) count toward that goal.

This doesn't happen often in the Reserves/National Guard, so many people just never have to deal with it (and therefore are just unfamiliar with the regs).
 
Posts: 1 | Registered: 21 September 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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I am currently making my case for the O-1e and keep meeting resistance because they say I don't have enough "active" points. I have 1105 active points on my points statement but well in excess of the 1460 total points (around 1800). The way I understand it, the points are calculated by retirement, not active, so I am in a pretty rare situation. Here is my case with references. This forum helped me to figure this out...so Here is my case. I hope it helps you!
Here is my entire case: (references below)
I believe that I qualify for the O-1e (prior enlisted ) entitlement IAW DOD FMR 7000 14-R Chapter 7A Part A, Subsection 6 as I have approximately 1728 CREDITABLE points as calculated by 10 USC 12732 (A)(2) which exceeds the required 1460 as outlined in the above mentioned FMR. Despite some points being listed as “inactive” on the points statement, they should be creditable when calculated according to 12732(A)(2). The fact that my “active” points don’t exceed 1460 on the points statement SHOULD NOT BE CONSIDERED as this is not how they are to be calculated IAW 10 USC 12732(A)(2). This calculation is reflected in the “creditable” points column.

In each year of my Army reserves, I was considered “active” but not “full time” (as opposed to inactive) and I earned at least the minimum required 50 points per year minimum, often more. The passage below states that only 50 points are required annually in this calculation and drill points do count, as shown in line “B” directly from 10 U.S.C. 12732(A)(2) which , in turn, is directly linked to from the DoD Financial Management Regulation 7000.14-R, Chapter 7A. I would also like to note that this is further supported by the Defense Finance and Accounting Service instructions in “interim change” IC08.04. (http://www.dkassociation.org/discus/messages/36/1260.html?FridayFebruary27200)

The passage below highlights that reserve points are awarded at one point per drill unit (UTA) as long as at least 50 points per year are earned (vs inactive). PLUS the regulation notes that the only service “NOT creditable” are INACTIVE (aka IRR or less than 50 points annually) reserve, which makes sense, as they do not count for retirement either. This is the same regulation in which reserve retirements are calculated, so I am certain that the points for active drilling (battle assemblies, MDAY) DO count as they do count toward retirement. Notice that DoD Financial Management Regulation 7000.14-R, Chapter 7A, 010103 Part A, Subsection 6 "Creditable Service for Certain Commissioned Officers" specifically refers to 10 USC § 12732 and even more specifically cites part (A) paragraph(2) which reads: (Please note Line B and C which show that the "inactive" point on points statement are creditable)

“(a)”
"(2) Each one-year period, after July 1, 1949, in which the person has been credited with at least 50 points on the following basis:
(A) One point for each day of—
(i) active service; or
(ii) full-time service under sections 316, 502, 503, 504, and 505 of title 32 while performing annual training duty or while attending a prescribed course of instruction at a school designated as a service school by law or by the Secretary concerned;
if that service conformed to required standards and qualifications.
(B) One point for each attendance at a drill or period of equivalent instruction that was prescribed for that year by the Secretary concerned and conformed to the requirements prescribed by law, including attendance under section 502 of title 32.
(C) Points at the rate of 15 a year for membership—
(i) in a reserve component of an armed force,
(ii) in the Army or the Air Force without component, or
(iii) in any other category covered by subsection (a)(1) except a regular component.
(D) Points credited for the year under section 2126 (b) of this title.
(E) One point for each day on which funeral honors duty is performed for at least two hours under section 12503 of this title or section 115 of title 32, unless the duty is performed while in a status for which credit is provided under another subparagraph of this paragraph.
For the purpose of clauses (A), (B), (C), (D), and (E), service in the National Guard shall be treated as if it were service in a reserve component, if the person concerned was later appointed in the National Guard of the United States, the Army National Guard of the United States, the Air National Guard of the United States, or as a Reserve of the Army or the Air Force, and served continuously in the National Guard from the date of his Federal recognition to the date of that appointment.
(b) The following service may not be counted under subsection (a):
(1) Service (other than active service) in an inactive section of the Organized Reserve Corps or of the Army Reserve, or in an inactive section of the officers’ section of the Air Force Reserve.
(2) Service (other than active service) after June 30, 1949, while on the Honorary Retired List of the Navy Reserve or of the Marine Corps Reserve.
(3) Service in the inactive National Guard.
(4) Service in a non-federally recognized status in the National Guard.
(5) Service in the Fleet Reserve or the Fleet Marine Corps Reserve.
(6) Service as an inactive Reserve nurse of the Army Nurse Corps established by the Act of February 2, 1901 (ch. 192, 31 Stat. 753), as amended, and service before July 1, 1938, as an inactive Reserve nurse of the Navy Nurse Corps established by the Act of May 13, 1908 (ch. 166, 35 Stat. 146).
(7) Service in any status other than that as commissioned officer, warrant officer, nurse, flight officer, aviation midshipman, appointed aviation cadet, or enlisted member, and that described in clauses (I) and (J) of subsection (a)(1).
"


References:
DoD Financial Management Regulation 7000.14-R, Chapter 7A, 010103
http://www.defenselink.mil/comptroller/fmr/07a/07a_01.pdf

10 USC 12732(a)(2)
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode10/usc_sec...0012732----000-.html

2004 IC DFAS update and instructions
http://www.dkassociation.org/discus/messages/36/1260.html?FridayFebruary27200
 
Posts: 2 | Registered: 17 May 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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IN other words, the total points is calculated as A+B+C+D+E=TOTAL POINTS OR
Active+Drill points+Membership points+2126 points+funeral detail= TOTAL points towards retirement. (As long as 50 points per year are earned) If that total exceeds 1460, I believe that meets the regulation for O-1e
This is of course ONLY my understanding of the regulation.
 
Posts: 2 | Registered: 17 May 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of Okla Reservist
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quote:
Originally posted by NewNG2LT:
IN other words, the total points is calculated as A+B+C+D+E=TOTAL POINTS OR
Active+Drill points+Membership points+2126 points+funeral detail= TOTAL points towards retirement. (As long as 50 points per year are earned) If that total exceeds 1460, I believe that meets the regulation for O-1e
This is of course ONLY my understanding of the regulation.


As I read the regulations, the only exception for retirement points would be your correspondence course points. Those don't count. So if your retirement point annual statement is accurate then subtract out the correspondence course hours & that will give you your points needed for O-1E status.


"Try not to draw the enemy's fire. It irritates everyone around you."
 
Posts: 79 | Location: Oklahoma City, OK | Registered: 04 June 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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Let's say you have 1400 retirement points when you leave for OCS. Does the 98 days you accumulate during OCS count as enlisted time since you are paid in the enlisted pay grade? Thus, putting you over the 1460 needed to be an O-1E?
 
Posts: 1 | Registered: 24 June 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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