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In regards to AR 600-8-19, para 10-18
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Here's my question. Does the regulation cited below mean any soldier who is told by higher to attend WLC, regardless of other regulations, who refuses to attend qualify for reduction in rank?I have five months left. I will have to push my ACAP process for at least another month. I was also threatened with loss of rank/pay. I was promoted roughly three weeks ago. No, I do not know why I was told to attend the promotion board with six months left in the Army. Frankly, the open threat pissed me off. In a time when my unit is denying reenlisted because individuals do not meet the criteria, the are willing to threaten me so I can go waste a WLC slot.


AR 600-8-19 covers this:

10–18. Failure to complete or attend Noncommissioned Officers Education System
Soldiers who fail to successfully complete, fail to remain eligible to be scheduled for or attend, who are denied enrollment in, or who do not attend their scheduled NCOES class (through fault of the Soldier) will be administratively reduced or removed from the promotion list. Soldiers will only be reduced when NCOES is required for his/her current grade. Soldiers will be removed from promotion list when promotion is being held in abeyance (for reasons set forth in para 1–27). The effective date of administrative reduction is the date of the action that caused the Soldier to be ineligible to retain the promotion. The DOR will be the previous DOR held at the reduced grade.

Since they want to play a regulation game, I'm willing to take this to the books. If there is nothing I can do, then so be it.
 
Posts: 1 | Registered: 20 May 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of AutobahnSHO
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quote:
Originally posted by SergeantW:
Does the regulation cited below mean any soldier who is told by higher to attend WLC, regardless of other regulations, who refuses to attend qualify for reduction in rank?


That is correct.

Is it really worth pissing off your chain of command to not go to a short school?


Be Proud of what you do- and do it Well! ~me
 
Posts: 5284 | Location: Ft Gordon (Again!!!) :-| | Registered: 22 October 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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That is NOT correct. you do NOT qualify for a reduction in rank. There is no NCOES requirement for Sergeant (E-5). Read AR 600-8-19, 1-27 (on page 9). Also, see Table 3-4.

However, when you were promoted, you were required to have 12 months time in service remaining. If you were promoted with 6 months left, you were erroneously promoted and they could possibly reduce you based on that.
 
Posts: 9 | Registered: 23 August 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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Someone above quoted the regulation:

quote:
AR 600-8-19 covers this:

10–18. Failure to complete or attend Noncommissioned Officers Education System
Soldiers who fail to successfully complete, fail to remain eligible to be scheduled for or attend, who are denied enrollment in, or who do not attend their scheduled NCOES class (through fault of the Soldier) will be administratively reduced or removed from the promotion list. Soldiers will only be reduced when NCOES is required for his/her current grade. Soldiers will be removed from promotion list when promotion is being held in abeyance (for reasons set forth in para 1–27). The effective date of administrative reduction is the date of the action that caused the Soldier to be ineligible to retain the promotion. The DOR will be the previous DOR held at the reduced grade.


If you get sloted/selected for the school, get TDY orders, or get ordered to attend WLC and you do not go, or do not complete the course, they could try to justify a reduction with the regulation.
 
Posts: 178 | Location: Fort Myer, VA | Registered: 21 February 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of AutobahnSHO
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quote:
Originally posted by SGT Billy B:
That is NOT correct. you do NOT qualify for a reduction in rank.


If Soldier is ordered to go and doesn't, it's called insubordination. They can be reduced in rank.


Be Proud of what you do- and do it Well! ~me
 
Posts: 5284 | Location: Ft Gordon (Again!!!) :-| | Registered: 22 October 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of LEAD SCOUT
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WLC IS A CAKE WALK....YOU PLAN ON GETTING PROMOTED LATER ON IN YOUR CAREER DONT YOU???


MVpYkED
 
Posts: 5 | Registered: 22 August 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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Sure they could get reduced for insubordination. However, that wasn't the question. The question was based on AR 600-8-19, 10-18.

"Soldiers will only be reduced when NCOES is required for his/her current grade."

As noted above in the other sections of AR 600-8-19, WLC is not a requirement to hold the rank of Sergeant. Since WLC is not a requirement for SGT, paragraph 10-18 does not apply to this situation for the reason quoted above.

Do your research and don't add stipulations to a question that wasn't yours to begin with. Read AR 600-8-19, paragraphs 1-27 AND 10-18 and see Table 3-4. I'm not making it up, it's there, in black and white, for the whole world to see.

In closing, you CANNOT be reduced from the grade of E-5 to E-4 for not attending WLC IAW the provisions set forth in AR 600-8-19.
 
Posts: 9 | Registered: 23 August 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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1-27a. The Noncommissioned Officer Education System requirements for promotion. Soldier must be-
(1) A Warrior Leader Course (WLC) graduate or equivalent for recommendation to SSG (see para d, below).

Paragraph d covers conditional promotion to SSG.

From Table 3-4 Eligiblity cirteria for promotion:

Military education SSG: Resident WLC or higher. (no mention of military education requirement for promotion to SGT).
 
Posts: 9 | Registered: 23 August 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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