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posted Hide Post
mafiaminds,
finally some good advise, nobody in my unit has ever been demoted, and I am by no means the problem child of the unit. I believe you have something there with the IG or EO thing.
 
Posts: 15 | Registered: 24 March 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post

posted Hide Post
and yes I did piss them off before, (long story) and the BN Commander put them in their place, thats where they are getting all the anger directed towards me from.
 
Posts: 15 | Registered: 24 March 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post

posted Hide Post
yeah, if no one else is recieving punishment, then you should seek legal advice through JAG. Make sure and tell them that you know your rights, and want to speak to a attorney. That alone might set them straight. JAG will advise you on your next step, and possibly contact your chain of command. Good luck
 
Posts: 68 | Location: ft. bragg | Registered: 04 March 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post

posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Zaknafien:
well, i suggest you check out Army Regulation 600-8-2. It lays out the rules for being flagged for PT failure. You're given 3 months to pass a PT test from the first one you failed.

also, see below

This is and exert from the regs that states that physical fitness is part of the MOS proficiency.

(3) Physical performance requirements are inherent in many tasks listed in the SM for each MOS. The ability to perform MOS physical tasks is 1 of the criteria for graduation from IET. Soldiers in units must maintain physical fitness proficiency as part of their overall MOS proficiency.
(AR 350-1 para 4-13 (3))

This is the Reg to reduce due to inefficiency.

Reduction for Inefficiency
Inefficiency is a demonstration of characteristics that shows that the person cannot perform duties and responsibilities of the grade and MOS. Inefficiency may also include any act or conduct that clearly shows that the Soldier lacks those abilities and qualities normally required and expected of an individual of that grade and experience. AR (600-8-19 para 10-5)

10–6. Criteria
a. A Soldier must have served in the same unit for at least 90 days prior to being reduced one grade for inefficiency.
b. The CDR starting the reduction action will present documents showing the Soldier’s inefficiency to the reduction authority. This may include—
(1) Statements of counseling and documented attempts at rehabilitation by chain of command or supervisors.
(2) Record of misconduct during the period concerned.
(3) Correspondence from creditors, attempting to collect a debt from the Soldier (see AR 600–15, para 3–1).
(4) Adverse correspondence from civil authorities.
c. Documents will establish a pattern of inefficiency rather than identify a specific incident. Reduction for inefficiency will not be used for the following:
(1) To reduce Soldiers for actions for which they have been acquitted because of court-martial proceedings.
(2) In lieu of UCMJ, Art. 15.
(3) To reduce a Soldier for a single act of misconduct.
d. The CDR reducing the Soldier will inform him or her in writing of the action contemplated and the reasons. The Soldier will acknowledge receipt of the memorandum by endorsement and may submit any pertinent matter in rebuttal.



I would like to know where you got that number of 3 months you have to pass your APFT when you fail one.
 
Posts: 1 | Registered: 11 April 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of JeffBull1962
posted Hide Post
In my professional opinion it doesn't matter what PMOS, you're a Soldier and no matter a 42A or a 11B you should at the very minimum pass the APFT that is totally an individual responsibility. If you don't have enough pride to at least pass the APFT but I guess you have enough pride to go to the ATM and withdraw cash from your military pay. "You don't become a failure until you're satisfied with being one." Yes you should have been reduced a long time ago. And shortly after that Chaptered out of the military. You have no legal leg to stand on.
 
Posts: 3 | Location: Fort Irwin, CA | Registered: 12 March 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of JeffBull1962
posted Hide Post
well to be exact it's not 3 months, it's 90 days. but in the end it really doesn't matter. Be proud to be a Soldier, not a shamer trying to wiggle yourself out of being reduced due to your laziness to do the minimum.
quote:
Originally posted by Datsun280Z:
quote:
Originally posted by Zaknafien:
well, i suggest you check out Army Regulation 600-8-2. It lays out the rules for being flagged for PT failure. You're given 3 months to pass a PT test from the first one you failed.

also, see below

This is and exert from the regs that states that physical fitness is part of the MOS proficiency.

(3) Physical performance requirements are inherent in many tasks listed in the SM for each MOS. The ability to perform MOS physical tasks is 1 of the criteria for graduation from IET. Soldiers in units must maintain physical fitness proficiency as part of their overall MOS proficiency.
(AR 350-1 para 4-13 (3))

This is the Reg to reduce due to inefficiency.

Reduction for Inefficiency
Inefficiency is a demonstration of characteristics that shows that the person cannot perform duties and responsibilities of the grade and MOS. Inefficiency may also include any act or conduct that clearly shows that the Soldier lacks those abilities and qualities normally required and expected of an individual of that grade and experience. AR (600-8-19 para 10-5)

10–6. Criteria
a. A Soldier must have served in the same unit for at least 90 days prior to being reduced one grade for inefficiency.
b. The CDR starting the reduction action will present documents showing the Soldier’s inefficiency to the reduction authority. This may include—
(1) Statements of counseling and documented attempts at rehabilitation by chain of command or supervisors.
(2) Record of misconduct during the period concerned.
(3) Correspondence from creditors, attempting to collect a debt from the Soldier (see AR 600–15, para 3–1).
(4) Adverse correspondence from civil authorities.
c. Documents will establish a pattern of inefficiency rather than identify a specific incident. Reduction for inefficiency will not be used for the following:
(1) To reduce Soldiers for actions for which they have been acquitted because of court-martial proceedings.
(2) In lieu of UCMJ, Art. 15.
(3) To reduce a Soldier for a single act of misconduct.
d. The CDR reducing the Soldier will inform him or her in writing of the action contemplated and the reasons. The Soldier will acknowledge receipt of the memorandum by endorsement and may submit any pertinent matter in rebuttal.



I would like to know where you got that number of 3 months you have to pass your APFT when you fail one.
 
Posts: 3 | Location: Fort Irwin, CA | Registered: 12 March 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of JeffBull1962
posted Hide Post
Is mafiaminds advise good becuase it fits your cry for justice? Just score a 180 and all this wouldn't have to go on.
quote:
Originally posted by confusedSPC:
mafiaminds,
finally some good advise, nobody in my unit has ever been demoted, and I am by no means the problem child of the unit. I believe you have something there with the IG or EO thing.
 
Posts: 3 | Location: Fort Irwin, CA | Registered: 12 March 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of spec_rebs
posted Hide Post
I know this was like 2 years ago but decided to post anyway.
From FM 21-20/1-1 Leader Responsibilities
Leaders should not punish soldiers
who fail to perform to standard.
Punishment, especially excessive repetitions
or additional PT, often does
more harm than good. Leaders must plan special training to help soldiers
who need it. The application of sound
leadership techniques is especially
important in bringing physically deficient
soldiers up to standard.
Read also in FM 21-20 Section 1-1/Special Programs/APFT Failures
Also read Ch. 12 of FM 21-20
An excerpt from there for High Altitudes-In
order to insure that soldiers who are
newly assigned to altitudes above 5,000
feet are not at a disadvantage, it is
recommended that 30 days of acclimatization,
including regular physical
activity, be permitted before they are
administered a record APFT.

The test is administered in accordance with the procedures detailed in Chapter 14 of Army Field Manual 21-20, Physical Fitness Training.

Soldiers who fail any portion of the APFT must re-take the entire APFT within three months (unless they have an approved medical profile). Soldiers who fail the APFT are flagged in accordance with Army Regulation 600-8-2, Suspension of Favorable Personnel Actions. Individuals who are flagged for APFT failure are not eligibile for promotion, reenlistment or enlistment extension.

What happened to NCO's?
Competence is my watchword. My two basic responsibilities will always be uppermost in
my mind—accomplishment of my mission and the welfare of my Soldiers. I will strive to remain
technically and tactically proficient. I am aware of my role as a noncommissioned officer. I will fulfill my responsibilities inherent in that role. All Soldiers are entitled to outstanding leadership; I will provide that leadership. I know my Soldiers, and I will always place their needs above my own. I will communicate consistently with my Soldiers and never leave them uninformed. I will be fair and impartial when recommending both rewards and punishment.

I know your getting out soon but your still obligated/required to uphold Army standards. If you are trying then they should atleast start you on a special PT program, and give you a diagnostic before throwing you into a Record APFT. If your just lazy, and don't care because your ETSing shame on you. Okay, so obviously you had some issues with your chain and the BN Commander chewed them out and now their treating you like dirt. Apparently they want to see you fail, and they want to probably give you not just a reduction in rank, but a reason to dishonerable discharge you or failure to adapt. Even if you are getting out in 4 months don't let them have the pleasure of reducing you (fight back with passing the pt test) then they can't touch you. Unfortunately, there are loop holes everywhere in Regs (both used for good and bad). The best thing I was ever told is to always watch your 6 because one day you might get that NCO willing to throw you under the bus or just not care because they are S-bag NCO/ETSING/Chapter etc. Cover all areas because not all soldiers/officers do whats right and/or they are willing to abuse their power. You shouldn't turn into an s-bag just because your ETSing, and you think it's your right. Meet the army standard until the army gives you the boot. Then you can do whatever you want. Hope this helps.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: spec_rebs,


“Success is how high you bounce when you hit the bottom.”
- General George S. Patton quote
 
Posts: 19 | Location: Yongsan Army Garrison, Seoul South Korea | Registered: 10 August 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post

posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by mafiamind85:
at least my ass can pass a pt test.. not trying to insult you. You know the standards, live up to them.


You my friend have got to me the dumbest person I know. I don't care who you are or what rank you are... you are stupid!!

Some people unlike you have trouble with the pt portion of being military especially younger soldiers. By younger soldiers i mean lower enlisted soldiers.

So yeah you are the biggest dickhead alive, you have to be. Not everyone's bodies are the same. Some have been doing this long before even joining the military and then there are those of us that never played sports. So yeah go suck off somewhere because unfortunately you are a dickhead cumquat!!
 
Posts: 3 | Registered: 12 May 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post

posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ravenaura:
quote:
Originally posted by mafiamind85:
at least my ass can pass a pt test.. not trying to insult you. You know the standards, live up to them.


You my friend have got to me the dumbest person I know. I don't care who you are or what rank you are... you are stupid!

Some people unlike you have trouble with the pt portion of being military especially younger soldiers. By younger soldiers i mean lower enlisted soldiers.

So yeah you are the biggest dickhead alive, you have to be. Not everyone's bodies are the same. Some have been doing this long before even joining the military and then there are those of us that never played sports. So yeah go suck off somewhere because unfortunately you are a dickhead cumquat!!


And furthermore I know you are a sergeant just by the way you are talking. Just to let you know it is sergeants like your dumb ass that cause lower enlisted to fail pt because you don't take time to help your freaking soldiers so shut the hell up!
 
Posts: 3 | Registered: 12 May 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post

posted Hide Post
THANK YOU SO MUCH YOU TOOK THE WORDS OUT OF MY MOUTH. FINALLY SOMEONE WHO SPEAKS LIKE A TRUE NCO. GOD BLESS YOU!

quote:
Originally posted by spec_rebs:
I know this was like 2 years ago but decided to post anyway.
From FM 21-20/1-1 Leader Responsibilities
Leaders should not punish soldiers
who fail to perform to standard.
Punishment, especially excessive repetitions
or additional PT, often does
more harm than good. Leaders must plan special training to help soldiers
who need it. The application of sound
leadership techniques is especially
important in bringing physically deficient
soldiers up to standard.
Read also in FM 21-20 Section 1-1/Special Programs/APFT Failures
Also read Ch. 12 of FM 21-20
An excerpt from there for High Altitudes-In
order to insure that soldiers who are
newly assigned to altitudes above 5,000
feet are not at a disadvantage, it is
recommended that 30 days of acclimatization,
including regular physical
activity, be permitted before they are
administered a record APFT.

The test is administered in accordance with the procedures detailed in Chapter 14 of Army Field Manual 21-20, Physical Fitness Training.

Soldiers who fail any portion of the APFT must re-take the entire APFT within three months (unless they have an approved medical profile). Soldiers who fail the APFT are flagged in accordance with Army Regulation 600-8-2, Suspension of Favorable Personnel Actions. Individuals who are flagged for APFT failure are not eligibile for promotion, reenlistment or enlistment extension.

What happened to NCO's?
Competence is my watchword. My two basic responsibilities will always be uppermost in
my mind—accomplishment of my mission and the welfare of my Soldiers. I will strive to remain
technically and tactically proficient. I am aware of my role as a noncommissioned officer. I will fulfill my responsibilities inherent in that role. All Soldiers are entitled to outstanding leadership; I will provide that leadership. I know my Soldiers, and I will always place their needs above my own. I will communicate consistently with my Soldiers and never leave them uninformed. I will be fair and impartial when recommending both rewards and punishment.

I know your getting out soon but your still obligated/required to uphold Army standards. If you are trying then they should atleast start you on a special PT program, and give you a diagnostic before throwing you into a Record APFT. If your just lazy, and don't care because your ETSing shame on you. Okay, so obviously you had some issues with your chain and the BN Commander chewed them out and now their treating you like dirt. Apparently they want to see you fail, and they want to probably give you not just a reduction in rank, but a reason to dishonerable discharge you or failure to adapt. Even if you are getting out in 4 months don't let them have the pleasure of reducing you (fight back with passing the pt test) then they can't touch you. Unfortunately, there are loop holes everywhere in Regs (both used for good and bad). The best thing I was ever told is to always watch your 6 because one day you might get that NCO willing to throw you under the bus or just not care because they are S-bag NCO/ETSING/Chapter etc. Cover all areas because not all soldiers/officers do whats right and/or they are willing to abuse their power. You shouldn't turn into an s-bag just because your ETSing, and you think it's your right. Meet the army standard until the army gives you the boot. Then you can do whatever you want. Hope this helps.
 
Posts: 3 | Registered: 12 May 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of TransAm95NCO
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by ravenaura:
quote:
Originally posted by mafiamind85:
at least my ass can pass a pt test.. not trying to insult you. You know the standards, live up to them.


You my friend have got to me the dumbest person I know. I don't care who you are or what rank you are... you are stupid!!

Some people unlike you have trouble with the pt portion of being military especially younger soldiers. By younger soldiers i mean lower enlisted soldiers.

So yeah you are the biggest dickhead alive, you have to be. Not everyone's bodies are the same. Some have been doing this long before even joining the military and then there are those of us that never played sports. So yeah go suck off somewhere because unfortunately you are a dickhead cumquat!!


I know you are upset and disagree with this person, but really? insults? Why do you have to call people stupid? The guy only said that the OP should live up to the standard that were set....Obvioiusly not everyone's body is the same but the standard is the standard and we must all at least meet the minimum, I am by no means a PT stud, I have to work hard to keep my score right above 250....if you are going to be a member of this forum, easy up on the insults and just tell people you disagree with that they posted or that you think what they posted is incorrect...


Lead by Example!!!
 
Posts: 3939 | Location: Somewhere in the US | Registered: 13 September 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

posted Hide Post
Failing multiple PT tests in a row,in addition to other aspects of his posts, shows the OP just didn't care. My NCO's have always told me they can do just about anything to help me succeed. But they can't shoot for me, and they can't take my PT test for me. And in the reserves, PT is ALL on you.
 
Posts: 15 | Registered: 02 July 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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