Originally posted by gimme_ETS: If you buy into all the bs in the Army then that's your problem, you'll be stuck in a mediocre life. That's what some people want, they don't want to have think for themselves or have a life where someone else is telling them what to do constantly. Have fun with that...and the value you put on your own life with your 20 grand(and im being generous) over 6 years says a lot. I'll be at the beach after work...where will you be?
It's one thing that you're always trying to justify you getting out and it's kind of amusing reading that. But now you seem to be putting those of us that choose a career in the military and trying to belittle us.
This is by no means a mediocre life. And if you let someone constantly tell you what to do and or think for you, you were not a strong enough leader to stick with a great job.
I used to just sit back and enjoy reading your posts, but now you crossed a line.
Gimme_ETS, just go ahead and just ETS and leave the soldiering to the Soldiers. Enjoy your life without the military, but don't think for one moment that those who chose to stay for awhile longer that you, with or without a bonus, are mindless robots.
i look at his post from a completely different angle. i know alot of soldiers that stay in because they know that they wont amount to anything on the outside so they linger on and get paid and retire without caring much about there organization, there soldiers, wives, children, family, etc, just playing cut throat to get to the top. but what is the army all about?? if you are an nco then you know that the army is about accompolishment of the mission and THE WELFARE OF THE SOLDIERS,(as an E4 i believe that i have helped the soldiers of my unit more than most of the ncos in it) and i have no problems with that but i know alot of leaders forgot that part of there job description. If you really look at it it doesnt take much to progress in the army (i know this because i have leaders that dont know half of my job but still have a HIGH rank,)and it is easy to just sit back and complain about the way things are going not wanting to improve your units but getting paid. I have alot of issues with the way things are in the army but i will finish out my contract and get out and like i have said before always support the solders (and not all soldiers are soldiers --kinda confusing i know but i hope you can understand my meaning of that comment) with all this said-- what can i do to make it better? "dont just come up with a problem but have a solution", ok heres my solution, i am ETS'sing this year and going to focus on my new mission My Family. There have been good times and bad times in my army life (in my opinion mostly bad) i have not enjoyed my time in the army, and when a person comes up to me with a question (maybe a new recruit) i will tell them exactally (not to the tee) what i have explained here and then some, ill tell them nothing but truth about the army and my opinion, but i do know this my children will NEVER ---NEVER serve in the military, but i do thank them for a great job and all the experience i got in its area, but im ready to get this burden off of my shoulders and use the leadership skills that i have attained in the military to lead my family in the right direction. ARMY Reenlistment i dont know you personally and am not trying to suck up but i do believe that you are taking care of your soldiers in the right way simply because you have helped me on here probally more than the ncos in my unit all together, and thats sad, but THANK YOU!!
sorry if i have mispelled anything but i type fast when i have something to say. and i can ramble on and on and on and on and on.................
Believe me wildman, I have had bad days in my 11 years (not too many though) and thought some of the things you're talking about. I would never say I know more than my supervisors (but sometimes I feel as if I do) but their jobs are completing different than ours. They are called supervisors for a reasons: they supervise.
The Army, like any other job in corporate America, is a game sometimes and you'll have to play that game if you want to get ahead and succeed (unless you own your own business).
I know of many "bad" NCOs that blatantly didn't care about anyone but themselves. I have two kids that are the same way at times, but they are kids. This is the main reason why I put together www.ArmyReenlistment.com. I didn't know all that I wanted to know and nobody wanted to share ALL their information (I think this was fear of loosing their jobs).
I take it personal when one of my Soldiers ETS. Only one of my Soldiers ETSed while I was their supervisor and that was when I decided to become a Career Counselor. She got a raw deal because I didn't give her the information she deserved. Not that I didn't want to, I just didn't know myself.
Good luck on the outside. You'll do fine for you and your family.
I'm not exactly sure who you have me confused with, but the only posts that I remember making in this forum were either directly related to the Army and my progression therein, or help about reenlistment.
I made an effort, more so actually than the Army did towards me. When I saw what was being offered to me, a soldier of 5 years, an NCO, in a star MOS no less, was significantly meanial compared to what they were offering some brand new recruits. This made me realize a few things. Granted, if I were only re-enlisting for the sake of compensation than maybe I should get out in the first place. The thing of it is though, throughout my Army career I was taught to believe that the Army wants you there, the Army will do everything within its power to keep you there, overall...it is THERE for you. It wasn't so much a decision based on whether or not I was sick of the Army. It was a decision based on the fact that if they didn't want me....then I'm gone. I even WANTED to go to a unit where I thought maybe the ideals and principles of what were supposed to exist were still in tact. All it did was add into the previously held notions that I had going through the ranks, which by the way I never catered towards my soldiers because they were MY notions. They were based on what I myself had gone through, and maybe they'd have better luck with the Army to find a better life in it.
I still believe that no other grown man should have complete control over another grown man's life. In that respect, yes, that is a mediocre life. You are only allowed to delve, ever so slightly, in the questionable or grey area of life in the Army. The greatest things have come from people going against the grain at times, in the Army whether you do or don't it is one mans final answer, and you have no say in it, no court, no judge, no jury....strictly no. It is the very opposite exercise of democracy that we're claiming to defend. What the Army instills in you is not discipline, it's self control. More often than not the multitude of people that come into the Army each year are lacking self control, they're simply immature looking for guidance. When an institution provides that for them and they see the first change in their rather short life so far, of course they will swear by it.
As for the comment about not being a strong enough person...if I were letting someone constantly tell me what to do and or think as you put it, wouldn't I have re-enlisted without a doubt? There have been multiple posts about how people feel insulted when their soldiers don't re-enlist etc etc. You spouted one such comment yourself. A prideful boast about how you've only had 'x' number of soldiers ETS while you were their supervisor...you can't tell me that is because of lack of bias or influence on your part. You can't tell me that the very job you hold isn't holding the same responsibilities that are catered towards the very aspects you site as 'not being a strong enough' whatever they may be. You have a mission as a career counselor I'm sure....to re-enlist as many soldiers as possible, I'm assuming. If you can honestly tell me that most, if not all, of the re-enlistments that take place for first term soldiers are not based on the influence you have on lower enlisted or junior NCO's at all then I'll take your word for it. But if they are at all..even a smidgen of them, then those soldiers that you re-enlist are just as you tried to portray me.
Maybe I did cross the line a bit, generalizing the entire military population. E5GenMech or whatever his name is attacked my decision first though, did he not? I believe that I am completely justified in attacking his own in response, especially when he does not know the entire story.
As a career counselor I would have hoped that you put more of the NCO part of the job into it, as far as what is best for the soldier. It seems though with your 'just ets and let the soldiers do the soldiering' comment is the same attitude that makes soldiers feel like they're being snided and outcast for not re-enlisting. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't you be looking out for the soldiers' best interests? Oh, I forgot the Army says you can't do that if you don't make mission, but wait they say 'soldiers first' too don't they? Regardless of if someone puts in 4 years or 30 years we should all be treated the same, because we did our duty.....ten times more than most Americans do. You should give an honest opinion on whether or not its beneficial for the soldier to re-enlist, which from what you have said, I doubt you do.
Anyway I'm done ranting and raving, and if you want to REALLY see how the Army pays respect to those who have served, try dealing with the VA and them cutting corners on every possible benefit that you have supposedly earned, and in the GI bill's case, PAID for...All in all, I'm glad I'm done with this false image they try to portray.
Wow, you have a long post. Let me answer some of your concerns.
Originally posted by gimme_ETS: I still believe that no other grown man should have complete control over another grown man's life. In that respect, yes, that is a mediocre life
Will you be working for yourself or someone else? If you're working for someone else, you may realize that the grass may be greener on the other side, BUT, it may not taste the same.
Originally posted by gimme_ETS: You have a mission as a career counselor I'm sure....to re-enlist as many soldiers as possible, I'm assuming. If you can honestly tell me that most, if not all, of the re-enlistments that take place for first term soldiers are not based on the influence you have on lower enlisted or junior NCO's at all then I'll take your word for it.
I do have a "mission" as a Career Counselor, but it's really only 30% of the eligible population. I don't pressure anyone to reenlist. All I do is lay out all the facts and the Soldier makes an informed decision. Do I steer Soldiers to reenlist, most definetly. Do I pressure? Not at all.
Originally posted by gimme_ETS: Forgive me if I'm wrong, but shouldn't you be looking out for the soldiers' best interests? Oh, I forgot the Army says you can't do that if you don't make mission, but wait they say 'soldiers first' too don't they?
If you've ever visited the website I created by myself and maintain by myself and pay for by myself, maybe you'd think differently. I am all about the Soldier and I provide ALL the information; good or bad for the Army. For the past three years I have dedicated my life to informing Soldiers of every aspect of the Army. What have YOU been doing?
Originally posted by gimme_ETS: You should give an honest opinion on whether or not its beneficial for the soldier to re-enlist, which from what you have said, I doubt you do.
You are both misinformed and ignorant to the fact that the military is a great place and benefit to 10s of thousands of Soldiers. It is, of course, not for everyone.
The military pays 100% of your retirement. What company will you work for when you ETS? Do they pay 100% retirement?
Now, I suppose its my turn to 'sit back and laugh at your posts.
If you are implying that I'm getting paid more but not get the satisfaction out of work then you need to take a SERIOUS look at your own job. You are simply a number, one that can make no difference in any type of policy or change that will or won't take place in your place of work.
I find it incredibly funny that you call me ignorant yet you say....and I quote "All I do is lay out all the facts and the Soldier makes an informed decision. Do I steer Soldiers to reenlist, most definetly" in response to my stating that you influence them towards reenlistment instead of helping them make the best career choice.
As far as your website, I have visited it before and I'm sad to say more than half of the links on it are broken or misdirected. If the 'dedication' you put into the website is the same amount as you give to soldiers than maybe you should rethink it all together.
Finally, your last quote about how im 'ignorant to the fact that the military is a great place and benefit'etc. Save that for the people standing outside the recruiting stations that were never in the military. I've been there, I don't see how I can be ignorant to an opinion...
You have made my point for me. You have been in eleven years and you throw quotes at me like 'The army will pay 100 percent of your retirement'. How can you possibly know what 100% of your retirement is going to be. Furthermore, even after 20+ years of service you cannot live day to day off of what the Army gives you for your 'retirement' without another job. You're right though...no one can guarantee paying 100% of my retirement because no one is going to cut me a blank check every month for what I say that I spent.
You must have soldiers that absolutely love the Army and everything it appears to stand for if that is all you took from the career counselor training to throw at them.
Thanks for the discussion though, I enjoy hearing other opinions hehe.