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Picture of WIT
posted
Is there an actual regulation or policy that states you must be wearing your uniform and/or shaven for the id card picture. For example for active duty according to the new AR 670-1 you must be clean shaven every day even when on leave, but for us Reservist and National Guard that doesn't apply unless on drill or active duty orders. Just curious if it may be an installation policy or something. Im dual status, I work as a DVD civilian and I'm in the reserves and I know for my civilian one I don't need to be shaven and our deers office is in an air force installation and they don't have any policies that say a service member from any branch can't get their ID card done in civilian with facial hair. So I'm just looking to learn more about this..


If you see your EOD tech running.. you better keep up.
 
Posts: 53 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 18 February 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of TheWiseChief
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My common sense answer to your common sense question is that you should look and dress appropriate for your photo so when you require access to enter an installation, the Guard on duty can easily identify you.

http://www.wikihow.com/Get-a-Military-ID

and

https://rapids-appointments.dm....aspx?BuildingId=274

MILITARY APPEARANCE

All Soldiers must be within military standards for their respective services for issuance of an ID in civilian clothing, no exceptions. (For Soldiers with shaving profiles, please have a copy of the profile with you)


US Army Korea
 
Posts: 1902 | Registered: 04 February 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of MSG W
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I have HUMINT soldiers in my company and a few have full on beards and civilian clothes in their ID pictures.

For most soldiers, the expectation is that you will by IAW 670-1.
 
Posts: 404 | Location: Ft. Lewis, WA | Registered: 30 May 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of SA Joe
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The newly updated AR 670-1 does not say that you must be clean shaven even while on leave. That was a possible change that was much anticipated, but did not come to fruition.

quote:
(b) Facial hair. Males will keep their face clean-shaven when in uniform, or in civilian clothes on duty.


That is the extent of what 670-1 says about facial hair, aside from the actual specifics of how your mustache must be trimmed.

I know 2ID does their own wacky stuff, and it may be a local policy at some installations, but it is not Army wide.

Google is your friend. 670-1
 
Posts: 123 | Location: Northern Virginia | Registered: 13 February 2009Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of SFC Jive Turkey
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AR 600-8-14

11.7.2. Military personnel may be photographed while wearing uniform or civilian clothes (reference paragraphs 11.7.3 and 11.7.4).

11.7.3. Active duty, Selected Reserve and Participating IRR members in uniform must comply with Service grooming standards.

This doesn't mean the installation won't create a strictor policy towards grooming. If that particular I.D. card office requires it, there is not much you can do. Might just be the Commander's discretion.

As for the comment regarding shaving while on leave. Could you please point me in the direction of the regulation that specifies that? Thank you.

Right there with you SA Joe.
Pretty cut and dry.
 
Posts: 250 | Location: Fort Rucker | Registered: 21 January 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of TheWiseChief
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quote:
Originally posted by WO1 Utley:
AR 600-8-14

11.7.2. Military personnel may be photographed while wearing uniform or civilian clothes (reference paragraphs 11.7.3 and 11.7.4).

11.7.3. Active duty, Selected Reserve and Participating IRR members in uniform must comply with Service grooming standards.

This doesn't mean the installation won't create a strictor policy towards grooming. If that particular I.D. card office requires it, there is not much you can do. Might just be the Commander's discretion.

As for the comment regarding shaving while on leave. Could you please point me in the direction of the regulation that specifies that? Thank you.

Right there with you SA Joe.
Pretty cut and dry.


I am in PACOM too DR and this is the type of messages I receive that come down official channels.

Pacific Victor 6's expectation is that male Soldiers who are not
on a shaving profile will be clean shaven when they are in public, in
uniform or out, on duty or off. Now I know some of you are going to say AR
670-1 says in uniform or when civilian clothes on duty, and you are right it
does. However, the Eighth Army Blue Book clearly states under Item 10.
Soldier Appearance a.1.b. "all male Soldiers are clean shaven on and off
duty each day." Please ensure you Leaders and Soldiers understand this. I
look at it like this. If a Soldier doesn't have the self discipline to
perform a simple task like shaving every day like his Commander has asked
him to, what other tasks does he not have the self discipline to accomplish?


Lead from the front!!
 
Posts: 1902 | Registered: 04 February 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of SFC Jive Turkey
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WiseChief,

This brings up an interesting discussion. Here at Fort Rucker we also have a "blue book" which take the current regulations and makes them more stringent. In my 14 years, this was the fist time I'd seen a "blue book". As you can tell by my avatar, I was armor for most of them. All of my duty stations up until now, even when a Drill Sergeant, we always used AR 670-1. I know each installation has a few tweaks and their own regs, but these were mostly for operations like range uniforms and such.

When it comes to these "blue books", I think we should ask ourselves a couple of questions. First, what is their purpose? Is it to standardized the already standardized? I ask because while some do offer some "installation specific" guidance, much of the information is regurgitated regulations already published. I used the phrase Commander's discretion earlier, but I think a better phrase would be Commander's pet-peeves.

Secondly, where do these pet-peeves come from? I have seen many junior NCOs, myself included, correct a Soldier for a minor offense because they thought the Soldier was wrong even though they were not. An example would be haircuts. There was a lot of speculation about the hair grooming standards becoming more strict. Even though the regulation was adequate, there was talk of the new reg being even more strict. I've personally seen Soldiers being corrected on their hair length, claiming "your hair can only be 3 inches long". Yet there was no such regulation. My first thought was had this Soldier ever read the regulations? My guess was no.

I then had an epiphany. These Soldiers, who grow up much higher in rank, probably got these ideas because that's what was told to them. They believed it and so the myth carried on. When a Soldier dispels the myth, the older Soldier refuses to let go because it seems more professional, and a pet-peeve is created which eventually makes it into a "blue book".

An example would be something from here. Just recently I was responding to this thread when SFC walked in. I said, SFC so and so, have you heard anything about Soldier's being required to shave when off duty? It's not in AR 670-1. His response well there are two books now, referring to DA PAM 670-1. He said he would get back to me when he found it, but he knew it was in there. Guess what? He never found it and nor did I. What do you think?
 
Posts: 250 | Location: Fort Rucker | Registered: 21 January 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of TheWiseChief
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That is interesting because when I crossed in the active Army (I was active duty Marine and National Guard before that); my first duty station was Fort Campbell (2004) and I was immediately given the Blue Book at Replacement. Same at Fort Carson.

Items in there were to learn the Division song and the history of the unit, plus the stringent info that you mention.

http://www.carson.army.mil/uni...s/43rd-blue-book.pdf

http://www.campbell.army.mil/P...%2016OCT14%20V.5.pdf

From the Campbell link

101St Airborne Division (Air Assault) AndFort Campbell 01 OCT 2014
Page 2
DEPARTMENT OF THE ARMYHEADQUARTERS, 101ST AIRBORNE DIVISION (AIR ASSAULT)FORT CAMPBELL, KENTUCKY 42223-5000 REPLY TOATTENTION OF AFZB-CG 01 September 2014 MEMORANDUM FOR: All Soldiers of the 101st Airborne Division (Air Assault) andFort Campbell SUBJECT: 101St Airborne Division (Air Assault) and Fort Campbell Standards

1. The primary goal of Fort Campbell Pamphlet 600-1(The Blue Book) is to guide and reinforce the high standards of conduct and appearance of all Soldiers at Fort Campbell.The Soldiers of the 101St Airborne Division (Air Assault) are a highly disciplined fighting force. We must maintain our vigilance at all times.


The above are some links but by your rank and Fort Rucker mention, I guess you are attending WOFT and do not sweat it. You aviators are your own different world and Army lol

But when I got to Campbell and now compare it to all my other assignments over the past 11 years, it is truly a different Army compared to others. There is Army culture and unit culture from there (e.g. 82nd Airborne, Ranger Regiment, SF, Aviation).

I just play by the rules and support the Commander. It makes things a little less stressful.
 
Posts: 1902 | Registered: 04 February 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of WIT
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Per this HRC message https://www.hrc.army.mil/site/...tification_Cards.pdf

AR 600-8-14 (IDENTIFICATION CARDS FOR MEMBERS OF THE UNIFORMED SERVICES, THEIR ELIGIBLE FAMILY MEMBERS, AND OTHER ELIGIBLE PERSONNEL):

AR 600-8-14 governs Identification Cards for members of the Army, Army Retired, Army Selected Reserve, Army
Inactive Ready Reserve (IRR), Army Retired Reserve, Family Members of Army Service Members, Army Civilians,
Army Contractors. This is a joint regulation; all other Armed Forces of the United States use this regulation with their
own regulation number attached to it.

It's an Air Force rag and nowhere in it states you must be clean shaven or in uniform to get your cac. (but if you are in uniform then you obvisouly have to meet the standards)

Here's a link to the AR 600 series, just click the 600-8-14 http://armypubs.army.mil/epubs...es_Collection_1.html or
http://static.e-publishing.af....p/afi_36-3026_ip.pdf


AFI36-3026_IP 17 JUNE 2009

11.7. Photographs - General Guidance. All DoD identification cards will contain a photograph. ................................................................ 106


11.7. Photographs - General Guidance. All DoD identification cards will contain a photograph. The following provides general guidance concerning photographs for both the machine-readable CAC and Teslin ID cards, and manually prepared cards:

11.7.1. Individuals will poise with a frontal, full-face (passport-type) photo shot. Head covering is acceptable for medical and religious reasons provided that the face is in full view.

11.7.2. Military personnel may be photographed while wearing uniform or civilian clothes (reference paragraphs 11.7.3 and 11.7.4).

11.7.3. Active duty, Selected Reserve and Participating IRR members in uniform must comply with Service grooming standards. Note: Active duty, Selected Reserve, and Participating IRR members must also be within Service dress and appearance standards when in uniform. This also applies to members who are on appellate leave. Refer to paragraph 9.4.

11.7.4. Nonparticipating Reserve members (IRR, Standby, and Retired Reserve awaiting pay at age 60) do not have to be within Service dress and grooming standards, when issued the DD Form 2 (Reserve).

11.7.5. Photographs will have no title board visible, clothing that is visible must be a neutral tone such as gray, black, or white and have no discernible words, effects, or designs.

11.7.5.1. Photographs must have a plain background without unit designations, motifs, or flag displays; white is recommended, light shades of neutrals may be used in lieu of white. Note: Anything other than the authorized background will render the card invalid.


If you see your EOD tech running.. you better keep up.
 
Posts: 53 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 18 February 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of Sergeant Medic
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IF you are in the Reserves and need a military CAC, not a DOD CIV CAC, then shave for the photo. If you're in uniform and using your military CAC for ID purposes, you do not want it to have any discrepancies, especially in the photo. Installation contract gate guards are not always the smartest group of individuals and even Exchange/Commissary workers could question it. Don't give them a reason to and do not be lazy by not shaving.
 
Posts: 131 | Location: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: 25 July 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of Sergeant Medic
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Anyone know a regulation that states a Reserve/Guard Soldier cannot use their military ID for base/post sponsorship purposes for a non-military related role?

Example: Reserve Soldier is a defense contractor and uses military ID to sponsor co-workers onto the base.
 
Posts: 131 | Location: Los Angeles, CA | Registered: 25 July 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of WIT
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I don't think there's such reg. I was a contractor before for 2 years and never heard of it. I'm currently a DOD Civilian now (I'm what they call Military Technicians aka Miltechs) which means I need to be in the Reserves in order to maintain my Civ DOD position. I work supporting the army reserve as a civilian. Same shit active duty does, less pay and benefits, but I can grow my beard. Also both my CACs (military and civilian) I have a beard on.


If you see your EOD tech running.. you better keep up.
 
Posts: 53 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 18 February 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of WIT
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the funny part about being miltech is situations like this.. my supervisor is also in my unit, he's an E7, and under him there is a csm, like 3 E8s (1 of them being our 1SG) and a CW3.. lol I thinks it's funny but he out ranks us in the civilian and but in the reserve side they all outrank him, and we're all in the same unit pretty much except a hand full of us.


If you see your EOD tech running.. you better keep up.
 
Posts: 53 | Location: Wichita, KS | Registered: 18 February 2014Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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