hey every one. quick question, now if you dont know for sure, please do not respond to this. i just got married and i will admit iv let my discipline down a bit, i started eating whatever i want, lack luster pt ect... now i busted tape, because of my body stature i have to be carefull because im a pretty muscular dud, a little extra in the gut area and ill bust quick. i busted tape, and then a month later passed it, so i was removed from the AWCP, but last month i busted it again. my NCO said they will not approve my leave... if you know for sure, or know specifically where i can find this info out please let me know...
Well I thought they could do that, but if you look at page 24, 1-14, AR 600-8-2, it just says something about advanced or excess leave. But I didnt read all of the AR.
BUT, what your NCO was stating could be a unit SOP, or SOG. If it is then you wont be taking leave.
Originally posted by SPC35H_cgs: hey every one. quick question, now if you dont know for sure, please do not respond to this. i just got married and i will admit iv let my discipline down a bit, i started eating whatever i want, lack luster pt ect... now i busted tape, because of my body stature i have to be carefull because im a pretty muscular dud, a little extra in the gut area and ill bust quick. i busted tape, and then a month later passed it, so i was removed from the AWCP, but last month i busted it again. my NCO said they will not approve my leave... if you know for sure, or know specifically where i can find this info out please let me know...
Hey you are not meeting standard right? So why should they let you take leave? Put it in, your NCO can mark there "disapproved b/c failed tape" send it up to the Company to get processed, if the 1SG and CO agree then it will get denied, if they disagree they will authorize it...I just read the regulation and a overweight flag does not block you from taking leave, BUT, did you know that if you fail the tape test, then pass it, then fail it again within one year...you can get chaptered out of the Army??
Oh also since this is a public forum you cant tell people not to post a response.
Lead by Example!!!
Posts: 1180 | Location: Somewhere in the US | Registered: 13 September 2007
This has always been one thing I have disagreed with....somewhat. I think that the leave you get is EARNED. It's not a privilege. I do agree however that if you are trying to take excessive or advanced that it is considered favorable action, which is perfectly fine to deny. In my books anyway, unfortunately the Army has a different book lol.
Can a CO just change his SOP like that and go around the AR? I thought the CO could only do that if the AR specifically stated that the CO could change it.
"Sic Vis Pacem Para Bellum"
Posts: 193 | Location: Fort Hood | Registered: 10 December 2007
Originally posted by 14JSPC42007: This has always been one thing I have disagreed with....somewhat. I think that the leave you get is EARNED. It's not a privilege. I do agree however that if you are trying to take excessive or advanced that it is considered favorable action, which is perfectly fine to deny. In my books anyway, unfortunately the Army has a different book lol.
Can a CO just change his SOP like that and go around the AR? I thought the CO could only do that if the AR specifically stated that the CO could change it.
could it be that he is adding to the regulation not taking away from it?
Lead by Example!!!
Posts: 1180 | Location: Somewhere in the US | Registered: 13 September 2007
I understand what your are saying but I feel that leave is earned. It's not something that is really negotiable. You get 2.5 a month for a reason, if it were a "privilege" they would give out a certain amount based on performance per month. Right? Weekend passes are a privilege, which is why they are (or should be) given based on Joe's performance.
"Sic Vis Pacem Para Bellum"
Posts: 193 | Location: Fort Hood | Registered: 10 December 2007
I am assuming all of this just happened within a few month time period. So you cant be that far from passing tape. Just work hard for a month go get another tape then submit your leave again. But I have seen commanders do this. Good luck.
the only one that can deny u leave is your commander. everyone else can recommend you not take it and what there reason is. The only time they cant really deny it is when it comes to use or loose days. but yes he is right as long as the commander doesnt take away from the regulation its good. the have that right to make Army regulations more strict.
AR 600-8-10, Leaves and Passes. Regulations are great, you should try reading them sometime, especially if you have a question about something that affects YOU.
What I've found is:
AR 600-8-10, Chapter 2, Section 2-1 (in its entirety):
quote:
2-1. Military requirement for leave
a. The Army leave policies are an important command requirement and care must be taken to prevent misuse of leave.
b. The frequent use of leave will make a positive contribution to morale, level of performance, and career motivation.
c. Operational missions and essential supporting functions of each command must be accomplished to the extent permitted by the manning provided.
d. Leave will be granted within the constraints of operational military requirements and to the degree of support for leave provided in the unit manning document.
AR 600-8-10, Chapter 2, Section 2-2, paragraph C
quote:
c. In pursuing the maximum use of leave, commanders must place emphasis on granting leave —
Within paragraph C, quoted below are two of the subparas.
quote:
(12) To allow the use of an average of 30 days per year. (13) To provide opportunity for leave to be taken as earned.
Pass is a priviledge awarded to deserving Soldiers by their commanders. Leave is something that is EARNED. The fact that you are flagged should not be a factor in whether or not you can take leave. Whether or not the commander approves should be based primarily on
quote:
the constraints of operational military requirements
Questions?
Posts: 147 | Location: Ft. Meade, MD | Registered: 08 August 2008
I can cut up a regulation and make is say what I want it to as well. As has been stated before, the command can add to the regulations so long as they aren't taking away, therefore if the command wants to make it SOP that you have to pass a tape then you better be passing a tape.
As a side note, don't be blaming marital bliss for your new found belly. It just ain't right. You know how to carry yourself to the standard so married or not you should be there.
Good luck though.
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Advice... Go upstairs, grab your big girl panties, and put them on....
Posts: 255 | Location: Fort Campbell, KY | Registered: 15 February 2008
The last two posters are both right, Firstly what is your units regulations, IE do you have a Unit SOP Book put out by the Commander and CSM, what are their expectations, Secondly what are the Armys Expectations of you?
While their is no current AR to prevent NORMAL leave if you are flagged, their is still your units regulations which can be equal or exceed current army regulations.
I would be more concerned with being chaptered then anything else at this point, while I know the army is all about family, the Mission is still first and foremost, your mission is to be ready to deploy at any moment for any reason, your current health effects the ability of that missions failure or success, if something happens to you because you are over weight and then after investigation, the army learns your commander let you go on leave, against unit sop and what have you, the blame goes to them and you.
You have a chance to learn from this expeirence, I suggest taking it and moving on, if you decide to fight this, I see you losing more then you would by simply accepting their take on your current health fitness level and adapting to become better, doing so would show leadership, and ability to stick with the standards.
Good Lucj
Climb to Glory 10th Mountain INF 2BCT
My heart will always be First to Fire, 11th Imperial BDE 1/44 AMD
Originally posted by 68WWife/92FSoldier: I can cut up a regulation and make is say what I want it to as well. As has been stated before, the command can add to the regulations so long as they aren't taking away, therefore if the command wants to make it SOP that you have to pass a tape then you better be passing a tape.
As a side note, don't be blaming marital bliss for your new found belly. It just ain't right. You know how to carry yourself to the standard so married or not you should be there.
Good luck though.
cut up a regulation?
Oh, you mean posting para. c, then subpara's 12 and 13 so I didn't inundate anyone with subpara's 1-11, which didn't apply? Okay.
My point was, per reg, leave is earned, not a priviledge. While your unit may be wrong in withholding something earned as a form of negative reinforcement of the height/weight standards, the OP still has to comply with them because they are in the Army. That's a given, and wasn't even an element of what I was attempting to contribute to the discussion.
I like regulations, it's what guides our existence as Soldiers. It gives us guidelines and exceptions. Here's another:
AR 600-8-2, Suspension of Favorable Actions (FLAGS), Ch. 1, Sec. 1-15, para. b:
quote:
b. Weight control.
(1) Flags for weight control block only attendance at full-time civil or military schooling, promotion, awards and decorations, assumption of command, and reenlistment or extension.
The term ONLY is exclusionary. And I don't see the word leave in that paragraph. You said yourself that the command cannot take away, so they cannot take away the exclusionary word ONLY.
Questions?
*brace for barrage*
Posts: 147 | Location: Ft. Meade, MD | Registered: 08 August 2008
Well, I am in a bad mood to start with so take this with a grain of salt.
Here is the answer. As far as the regulation is concerned, they should not deny your leave. In reality, some commands usually make up whatever they want and you have to go along with it or face the repercussions of someone who has proven already that they are unable or unwilling to follow the regulations. Kinda sucks huh. Eventually you or they will PCS. We all pray that it is you so we don't get stuck with the substandard command.
Oh yeah, your fat. Lose weight.
"War is an act of force, and to the application of that force there is no limit. Each of the advisaries forces the hand of the other, and in a recipricol action results in which there can be no limit..." Carl von Clausewitz, on war, 1833
Posts: 285 | Location: Fort Riley, KS | Registered: 20 May 2004
Originally posted by SSG Prophet: Excessive quoting removed AR 600-8-2, Suspension of Favorable Actions (FLAGS), Ch. 1, Sec. 1-15, para. b:
quote:
b. Weight control.
(1) Flags for weight control block only attendance at full-time civil or military schooling, promotion, awards and decorations, assumption of command, and reenlistment or extension.
The term ONLY is exclusionary. And I don't see the word leave in that paragraph. You said yourself that the command cannot take away, so they cannot take away the exclusionary word ONLY.
Questions?
*brace for barrage*
No questions, just comments.
I don't see it as taking away from that particular regulation. They are adding to the regulation by enforcing stricter policies. That's just the way I see it though.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: Daddy Warcrimes,
_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_ Advice... Go upstairs, grab your big girl panties, and put them on....
Posts: 255 | Location: Fort Campbell, KY | Registered: 15 February 2008
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