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Army 12 mile road march standards
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Picture of 11BIN3ID
posted Hide Post
You train harder so when your in the situation in real life, it isn't so bad.... You do 12 mile ruck run/marches so when you are told to do a patroll in iraq for 4 miles at a slow pace, you should be good...
 
Posts: 991 | Registered: 12 November 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post


USAR Career Counselor
Picture of Daddy Warcrimes
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by adept:
a good reason would be your still a soldier and with that being said "soldiering" should still be in your basic skill set


And I bet you a shiny nickel I can still march to the Army's standard. However, I have yet to see any published standard 12 miles in 3 hours.

A 47 year old female soldier has 24 minutes to complete a 2 mile run. If she's on profile, she has 40 minutes for the walk. Do the math with me, that's 3 hours 12 minutes at that pace for 12 miles.

I can't for the life of me see telling that same Soldier she has to do 12 miles under load at a 15 minute pace.

I consider retention counseling to be a basic NCO skill, yet I wouldn't hold an 11B to the same standards as a 79S.

METL is there for a reason.
 
Posts: 2864 | Location: 13th BN ARCD, AZ | Registered: 15 February 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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I remember that when I went through AASLT school at Campbell, there was a 3 hour AASLT standard. Anyone that had not yet went to the school had to do it in 3 hours or less, which was the standard to pass that portion of the school. If you had already went to the school, the standard was 4 hours. Looking at that, I agree that it is prob more a unit/post standard for time requirements on a ruck march.


 
Posts: 29 | Registered: 30 December 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Daddy Warcrimes:
quote:
Originally posted by adept:
a good reason would be your still a soldier and with that being said "soldiering" should still be in your basic skill set


And I bet you a shiny nickel I can still march to the Army's standard. However, I have yet to see any published standard 12 miles in 3 hours.

A 47 year old female soldier has 24 minutes to complete a 2 mile run. If she's on profile, she has 40 minutes for the walk. Do the math with me, that's 3 hours 12 minutes at that pace for 12 miles.

I can't for the life of me see telling that same Soldier she has to do 12 miles under load at a 15 minute pace.

I consider retention counseling to be a basic NCO skill, yet I wouldn't hold an 11B to the same standards as a 79S.

METL is there for a reason.



retention counseling a basic nco skill? umm no

its an additional duty, that as an nco we should be at least somewhat informed or know where to get the answer from for our joe's

reading a map, performing buddy aid, marksmanship, those are basic NCO (and soldier for that matter) skills

if you are in the army you are a SOLDIER first and a career counselor second.


with that being said no i cant think of an army wide standard for a road march, however if there was one it should be met by ALL soldiers regardless of rank or duty description
 
Posts: 244 | Location: ft hood | Registered: 25 February 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post


USAR Career Counselor
Picture of Daddy Warcrimes
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by adept:
retention counseling a basic nco skill? umm no

While I can't speak with authority on the Regular Army's retention programs, USAR Regulation 140-6 clearly outlines the retention responsibilities of the first line leader.

quote:
reading a map, performing buddy aid, marksmanship, those are basic NCO (and soldier for that matter) skills

No argument here.

quote:
if you are in the army you are a SOLDIER first and a career counselor second.

Personally I consider myself a soldier second, and a career counselor fourth, but no sense in arguing semantics.

quote:
with that being said no i cant think of an army wide standard for a road march, however if there was one it should be met by ALL soldiers regardless of rank or duty description

If you're disagreeing with me adept, I fail to see where.

If there were such an Army wide standard, then it logically would apply universally, and evaluated regularly.

Since there is no such standard, any requirements would be determined by the commander based upon the unit's METL.

For example:
If I commanded a mechanized infantry unit, I might have a lighter load requirement than if I had an airborne unit. I'd also have a faster pace.

My organization has no METL tasks directly related to combat. The only significant walking we might do is a few miles back to town in the event that the Impala breaks down and there is no cell service. There is no reason for our commander to set a road march standard.

Every career counselor I've met meets the Army wide road march, 100 meter dash, long jump, pole vault, and caber toss standards.
 
Posts: 2864 | Location: 13th BN ARCD, AZ | Registered: 15 February 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post

posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Daddy Warcrimes:
quote:
Originally posted by adept:
retention counseling a basic nco skill? umm no

While I can't speak with authority on the Regular Army's retention programs, USAR Regulation 140-6 clearly outlines the retention responsibilities of the first line leader.

quote:
reading a map, performing buddy aid, marksmanship, those are basic NCO (and soldier for that matter) skills

No argument here.

quote:
if you are in the army you are a SOLDIER first and a career counselor second.

Personally I consider myself a soldier second, and a career counselor fourth, but no sense in arguing semantics.

quote:
with that being said no i cant think of an army wide standard for a road march, however if there was one it should be met by ALL soldiers regardless of rank or duty description

If you're disagreeing with me adept, I fail to see where.

If there were such an Army wide standard, then it logically would apply universally, and evaluated regularly.

Since there is no such standard, any requirements would be determined by the commander based upon the unit's METL.

For example:
If I commanded a mechanized infantry unit, I might have a lighter load requirement than if I had an airborne unit. I'd also have a faster pace.

My organization has no METL tasks directly related to combat. The only significant walking we might do is a few miles back to town in the event that the Impala breaks down and there is no cell service. There is no reason for our commander to set a road march standard.

Every career counselor I've met meets the Army wide road march, 100 meter dash, long jump, pole vault, and caber toss standards.



do you have to qualify on your m16?

that seems like a task directly related to combat

what does the NCO Creed say?: I will remain TACTICALLY and technically proficient.

now i cant with authority on the reserve component, however on the active duty side of the house the creed clearly outlines your responsibility as a NCO.

last line was funny though!
 
Posts: 244 | Location: ft hood | Registered: 25 February 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post


USAR Career Counselor
Picture of Daddy Warcrimes
posted Hide Post
adept, you seriously don't need to quote my entire post in every reply. It makes things difficult to read.
quote:
Originally posted by adept:
do you have to qualify on your m16?

My organization owns no tactical equipment. When we can beg borrow or steal weapons, TA-50, ammo, and a range, our focus is on familiarization rather than qualification.

We do however train and evaluate common warrior tasks annually. These are actual Army standards (unlike the arbitrary 3 hour 12 mile) in official publications. We meet the standard.

quote:
that seems like a task directly related to combat
It is combat related, and it is not in our METL.

quote:
what does the NCO Creed say?: I will remain TACTICALLY and technically proficient.
So because the 40+ year old senior NCOs in my unit who meet or exceed Published Army Standards but can't march to Expert Infantry standards you're saying they aren't tactically proficient?
 
Posts: 2864 | Location: 13th BN ARCD, AZ | Registered: 15 February 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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wait are you trying to tell me that in the reserves you are somehow exempt for qualifying on your weapon system?..is this because of your job and is there a regulation that backs this?


Last i checked a METL does not trump an army regulation?


@ your 40 year old comment

no im not saying that i specifically said that IF there was a published standard then it needs to be met by ALL regardless of rank or duty description.
 
Posts: 244 | Location: ft hood | Registered: 25 February 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of AutobahnSHO
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by adept:
wait are you trying to tell me that in the reserves you are somehow exempt for qualifying on your weapon system?..is this because of your job and is there a regulation that backs this?


I have not fired a real weapon for 14 months now. I'M ACTIVE DUTY AND MEET THE STANDARDS. For whatever idiot reason here (TRADOC, AIT-Land) we don't have to go qualify.

We fired on the ESP2000 a while back just for fun, (and to 'remember' a little bit of skillz.)


Be Proud of what you do- and do it Well! ~me
 
Posts: 5281 | Location: Ft Gordon (Again!!!) :-| | Registered: 22 October 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post


USAR Career Counselor
Picture of Daddy Warcrimes
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by adept:
you are somehow exempt for qualifying on your weapon system?

No, I'm telling you my organization owns no tactical equipment.

Kind of hard to qualify on my weapon system when there is none assigned. Can you reference the regulation that mandates qualification?

quote:
no im not saying that i specifically said that IF there was a published standard then it needs to be met by ALL regardless of rank or duty description.

So because there is no published Army wide standard for a road march, you're perfectly OK with a unit that never road marches right?
 
Posts: 2864 | Location: 13th BN ARCD, AZ | Registered: 15 February 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post

posted Hide Post
off the top of my head i believe its AR350-1 that states commanders should make sure marksmanship training is included in there METL
 
Posts: 244 | Location: ft hood | Registered: 25 February 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post


USAR Career Counselor
Picture of Daddy Warcrimes
posted Hide Post
I found DA Pam 350-38. Best I can tell is that for CSS (that's me)
Active: 90% qualified within the past 6 months on their assigned weapon
RC: 80% within the past 12 months

So the question remains, can you mandate qualification without assigning a weapon?

Despite what my unit's qualification standards may be, Daddy Warcrimes remains proficient in the use of rifles and pistols. Unfortunately, with the current price and availability of ammo, and my proximity to a range since my last PCS, my practice sessions are not as frequent as they used to be.
 
Posts: 2864 | Location: 13th BN ARCD, AZ | Registered: 15 February 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of MSG W
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by adept:
do you have to qualify on your m16?

that seems like a task directly related to combat


We don't qualify with weapons. Not only do we not have assigned weapons, we don't have weapons at all, go to ranges, etc. It has nothing to do with our mission.

Now, obviously I'm not talking about this deployment where I'm an IA, I'm referring to my home unit. I went through pre-deployment training and had no problem with it. However, some things just aren't feasible in every unit.

My husband's unit doesn't have weapons either, and it's all SF and Rangers. I haven't seen homeboy in a uniform in 3 years. By all means maintain proficiency, but be practical about it.

We're both AD.
 
Posts: 397 | Location: Ft. Lewis, WA | Registered: 30 May 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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@ daddy warcrimes, now this thread has evolved for me, ever since i have been in the army i was under the impression qualification on your primary weapon was a mandatory thing, im starting to doubt that the more i research it now.

@SFC W i have noo idea what your mission is therfore i will not speak on it, but im assuming you fall somewhere close to daddy....smh at your husbands unit thought that makes no since are you saying you husband is in a unit full of rangers and SF and they do not have weapons? that sounds preposterous, while it makes logical sense for a career counselor to not have a weapon assigned, it makes no damn sense for all intensive purposes a bunch of infantry soldiers
 
Posts: 244 | Location: ft hood | Registered: 25 February 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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