I am currently 108 lbs. I am stationed at Ft Carson. I have always passed a pt test. We had a squadron run a few days ago. I fell out towards the end so they put me on remedial pt. I don't agree with this but I will go along with it. But the main problem is that we do remedial pt before regular pt and so we do 2 hrs of pt every morning. This I think is outrageous especially since 2 people from our S-1 fell out and do not even attend the remedial pt. Please help me out is there some where in the regs that prohibits them from doing this to us?
in he current 21-20 thee is no specific mention of anything doing with remidial PT there is a strong caution about useing unit runs as a measure of PT endurance or otherwise :S
and i Quote (cut and paste style)
Common Errors There are some common errors in unit programs. The most common error concerns the use of unit runs. When all soldiers must run at the same pace as with a unit run, many do not receive a training effect because they do not reach their training heart rate (THR). The least-fit soldiers of the unit may be at risk because they may be training at heart rates above their THR.
Posts: 292 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 October 2003
Unfortunately from my knowledge as my units Training NCO, the Commander can recommend anyone to take part in "special Emphasis PT". They can not use this pt program to punish Soldiers but they can use it to target potential problem areas. From what I know no one else can mandate your attendance in this program, but they can recommend to your commander who attends.
As for my oppinion... I do not think unit runs should be used to "judge your aerobic fitness". I have fallen out of unit runs because they are too slow (I just ran a 13:18 today), so it would be crazy to make me run more. On the otherhand if the commander thought I should do more pt to bring up my pushups to 90 pts he could if that was the standard he wanted (needs to be a policy letter).
Everyone remember that the commander can request Soldiers to weigh-in and or tape at his discression (sp).
Posts: 234 | Location: Somewhere out there | Registered: 25 September 2003
[quote:32e0ec1850="mecia"]i dont think there should be any remedial pt in the first place all that does is make the individuals feel as if they cant do anything so they have to remedial pt.[/quote:32e0ec1850]
My soldiers never thought so. Remedial PT shouldn't be degrading or punitive. When I conducted it with my fire team everyone remained motivated because they understood that they must meet the unit standard.
[quote:32e0ec1850="FM 21-20"]The unit’s standards may exceed the Army’s minimums. By regulation (AR 350- 15), the unit’s standards can be established by the unit’s commander, based on mission requirements.[/quote:32e0ec1850]
The APFT standards are the bare minimum a soldier needs to be healthy. It's enough to reduce most injuries, peform normal duties, and better deal with stress. But simply passing a PT test won't prepare you to carry a 80 lbs ruck sack for 100 miles. It won't be enough to overpower Charlie when he jumps in your foxhole with a rusted machette.
Remember folks, the point of PT is not to pass the APFT.
As for the guys in S-1; If they don't fall under the chain of command who put you on remedial PT you can't really expect the same rules to apply to them.
Have some pride in what you do and the choices you make. Don't like the way Army works - there are plenty of jobs on economy. I wished our extra pt was in the morning - running around the hills in the blasting 105 degrees with 84% humidity is like doing pt in a steam room.
Posts: 112 | Location: Korea | Registered: 20 May 2004
I ran in to a similar situation at Ft Benning. I had a Company commander who wanted remedial PT to take place immediatly after regular PT. He also wanted the soldiers involved in remedial PT to report to work at the same time as soldiers only doing regular PT. I explained to the CO that it would not give the soldiers enough time to shower and eat after PT. He replied "Their first line supervisor can get them a plate." I said "The soldiers still need a shower and that they will consider it a punishment to not be allowed to shower." He said "I want it to be a punishment." That comment is what got the remedial PT program changed to the afternoons. It states directly in AR 21-20 that the remedial program should not seem like a punishment to the soldiers. I encouraged one of the soldiers on remedial PT to call IG and it was taken care of. Also at that time I had gone to the Master Fitness Trainer school on Ft Benning asking them if this was a good way to conduct remedial PT they told me that PT can only be conducted to a point before the health advantages to doing PT can become disadvantages and cause more damage than good.
our 1SG has special emphasis PT done for extra time in the morning, rather than twice a day. Thought process was that doing PT in the afternoon doesn't help when it's CAT V.
Also, a lot of units will not call it remedial PT, but Special Emphasis PT or Special Population PT (Special Pops). It's normally the "remedial" part that makes people feel like it's a punishment.
[quote:f1823edd7b]I fell out towards the end so they put me on remedial pt. [/quote:f1823edd7b] Shellilyn5, i assume the "they" is your Platoon SGT or Section SGT. If your S1 is in a different platoon, that would explain why they are not in the program. It sounds like something you should bring up with your first line supervisor, tactifully as always.
Posts: 941 | Location: Joint Base Lewis-McChord, WA | Registered: 09 February 2004
and on a side note of being in remidial PT Shellilyn5 dont feel to bad whe i was in germany in 92 i fellout of alot of unit runs for the primary reason of im 6'3" and when i run i have a rather long stride (i averaged a 12min 2 mile) and got stuck in remidial PT quite often. Just when i had to run at that shuffle/unit run pace i would cramp Bad :?
Posts: 292 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 October 2003
My old battalion had a somewhat better program (but still wrong) The CSM took all the PT failures, BN run fallouts, and profiles to do PT with him every morning. Ft Riley set aside 0630 to 0730 for PT so they warmed up prior to 0630, conditioning from 0630 to 0730 (21-20 recomends no more than half that) and cool down starting at 0730.
Sometimes I think that soldiers are issued a special edition of FM 21-20 at ANCOC.
Remedial PT is not punishment, it is discretionary per each unit's Commander. If you are placed on remedial PT, you should have been counseled on it. It should also have had a provision for when you can come off of remedial PT. (ie. not fall out of the next company run, pass your next APFT, etc.) You aren't going to be on it until you PCS right? As far as conducting PT on Saturdays or Sundays, that would fall into a different category here on Ft. Lewis as it isn't considered part of a normal working day. Therefore, it would be considered a punishment. (for those wanting to be politically correct, refer to it as a punitive action) If the provisions for coming off it have not been outlined, see the individual who counseled you and discuss this further.