I need some help on this one. I have a female soldier that is single that is friends with a married soldier in another Company within the same Battalion. Here is the history. Before I became the Platoon Sergeant for my platoon this female soldier was counseled that she should stay away from this married male soldier because of PERCEPTION - does everyone know this dangerous word in the Army - She was counseled by the last Platoon Sergeant before I came on board and was verbally counseled by the 1SG. The female soldier decided to go to Inspector General(IG) and they told her that they couldn't do that, so she continued to see the married soldier in the common areas..i.e. DFAC, MWR. Oh by the way, we are in Iraq. Ok, here is my problem, I have verbally counseled this female soldier and have reinforced the written counseling that she received, now the 1SG wants me to have the soldier do a sworn statement asking one question of the soldier. "Are you and SPC so and so in a relationship?" Now, I understand the whole picture..yeah soldier could get pregnant, wife could be informed back in the rear - because everyone knows about the numerous rumors that the FRG keeps up. Anyway, is there a policy or regulation in black and white stating that this soldier can be ordered to stay away from this married soldier, other than it being perception? Am I authorized to keep questioning this soldier about this and not be a part of the whole cycle and possibly be dragged into it eventually being called harassment. Again, there is no proof of any sexual wrong doing by these two soldiers other than the perception because one is married(male) and one is not(female). I am not worried about enforcing standard and have asked the 1SG to show me this in some type of regulation and he has yet to show it to me. Just trying to cover all my bases before I continue to counsel this soldier, so if anyone knows of anything in black and white, please let me know. Thanks for any and all comments.

I do know that she has the right to refuse filling out a sworn statement unless she has been read her rights first.

Sounds like a witch hunt to me, Perception is just that, a word. If these 2 are truly up to nothing then why is such a big stink being made? Sworn statements and such come into effect when the Soldiers have been busted. Like you said there is no proof so why keep busting these Soldiers balls over rumors and nosey people. We have all been to Iraq and the big question is always who is sleeping with who, Why? because people have way to much time on their hands....just my 2 cents.

quote:

Originally posted by SSG E:
Sounds like a witch hunt to me, Perception is just that, a word. If these 2 are truly up to nothing then why is such a big stink being made? Sworn statements and such come into effect when the Soldiers have been busted. Like you said there is no proof so why keep busting these Soldiers balls over rumors and nosey people. We have all been to Iraq and the big question is always who is sleeping with who, Why? because people have way to much time on their hands....just my 2 cents.

Hey, I totally agree..I leave work and head to my CHU after being on the road. I'm so tired of this shit..the CSM and 1SG is pushing this. I have stood up for the soldier only to get my ass chewed. I say the same thing..to much damn time on their hands. The only thing I am concerned with is this soldier is very emotional. If in fact, this soldier is having a relationship with this married soldier. I see all sorts of problems upon redeployment. The 1SG says he have seen them everyday eating together. The married soldier's chain of command have yet to tell him something about the situation so obviously they must not see a problem with it. I brought this fact up to the 1SG only to hear "I'm not concerned with that soldier just mines!" Roger, got it. I just need to ensure that I am doing the right thing and not violating any regulations. This is such bullshit!

It sounds like you are a good leader that cares what happens to this female. You are right, that one's perception in the Army is reality. Only, she doesn't care what anyone else thinks about her and her married friend's relationship, so sober her up with this reality:

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_wires/2008Oct03...dierStabbing,00.html

If she gets knocked up, that's her life lesson to learn, and her cross to bear. But at least you can't say you didn't do your part to warn her.

No expert on this by any means, but from what I understand if the 1sg suspects infidelity and he pushes the issue, since hearsay is admissable evidence in the military justice system, thy could easily get their careers shot just for seeming too friendly. I know this isn't the answer you wanted, but I think it's important to remember that the 1sg could say he saw your soldier flying to the moon and it COULD be admissable. I would just advise her that the situation could get very ugly for her friend beforeit does for her. Shoot tell her to hang out with him only with another friend just to keep some heat off of her. That sucks.

What Im wondering is, if IG told her that they cant do that and they continue to do it why doesnt she just go back to IG and put in the complaint?

quote:

Originally posted by TransAm95NCO:
What Im wondering is, if IG told her that they cant do that and they continue to do it why doesnt she just go back to IG and put in the complaint?

Ok, we all know how IG works. A soldier goes and complains. What does IG do? calls the command and gives "suggestions" hey, you might wanna be careful..This soldier might have a legitimate complain. In turn, what happens to the soldier? If you been in the Army for a min..we all know that the Chain of Command will try their best to find another way to get the soldier...All IG does it look at the regulations and try to interpret whether or not the soldier is falsely being persecuted but basically ensuring the Chain of Command isn't doing something to get themselves in trouble. Ultimately the chain of command will win. I don't even know why IG exist. Which brings me back to my original question. Is there anything in black and white? I seriously doubt it but who wears the big draws...definitely not the soldier. Something this damn simple..all about PERCEPTION

quote:

Originally posted by eatyourface:
No expert on this by any means, but from what I understand if the 1sg suspects infidelity and he pushes the issue, since hearsay is admissable evidence in the military justice system, thy could easily get their careers shot just for seeming too friendly. I know this isn't the answer you wanted, but I think it's important to remember that the 1sg could say he saw your soldier flying to the moon and it COULD be admissable. I would just advise her that the situation could get very ugly for her friend beforeit does for her. Shoot tell her to hang out with him only with another friend just to keep some heat off of her. That sucks.

UPDATE: Ok, I took most of this advice. I had a long talk with the soldier and her Squad Leader yesterday. I saw tears and I saw fears when I started talking about the repercussions of her actions and his upon redeployment. I keep hearing we are friends. I try to believe my soldier but it is hard when I hear that you eat with this soldier everyday and I get beat up from the 1SG saying that he wants this to stop. Why is he pushing for "me" to do all this paperwork? Does he know that It might be wrong? Will he say that he had nothing to do with it? These are the questions that are running thru my head. I will be going to JAG tomorrow to get some of these questions answered. I told the soldier.."Look, we have a month left in Iraq" is it worth you losing your rank?" I totally believe that there is no regulation against her talking to this soldier and befriending this married soldier. If it was a married male and a single male, would it be a problem? I seriously doubt it. The military is such a messed up place sometimes but I guess we have to learn from history...i.e. Fort Bragg. Well, I refused to have the soldier do any type of sworn statement. I'm now waiting for the backlash from the 1SG. It is my job as the Platoon Sergeant to look out for my soldiers. I have yet to see this soldier do anything inappropriate. What leg do I have to stand on? Damn Perception!

No there isnt anythin g they can do to this soldier legally. All this is, is empty threats. I mean if you wanna get technical it is a direct order but its not a lawful one. Without proof of any wrongdoing they cant tell her nothing and the fact that his chain isnt worried about it helps. now if there was wrong doing like someone saying hey there doing this that not supposed to than they can stop it. But just eating and going to the gym and stuff like that donesnt mean they are sleeping together. Im proud of you for standing up for your soldier. oh also no has the right to question that soldier about if shes sleeping with him, it illegal. It would be like me asking you if you were gay kinda thing. You need to go to legal not IG cause IG never helps with anything at all i have found this out a long time ago. does the commander know any of this. If not then they should know.



LEADERSHIP IS THE ART OF GETTING SOLDIERS TO DO IT BECAUSE THEY WANT TO NOT BECAUSE YOU TOLD THEM TOO.

quote:

Originally posted by 88_MIKE_MIKE:
I keep hearing we are friends. I try to believe my soldier but it is hard when I hear that you eat with this soldier everyday and I get beat up from the 1SG saying that he wants this to stop.

Is it hard to believe b/c they eat lunch together??? WHAT?????? Im sorry but thats retarded, no I didnt call you retarded, I said that the statement "its hard to believe when she eats with this Soldier everyday" is retarded....think about it, by this statement you are pretty much saying that its hard to believe anyone in the Army is just friends, who do you eat with? SGT john doe? oh crap well there must be something going on there b/c you are eating with him everyday, maybe we should chapter both of you out for the perception that you all having homosexual conduct, you get what im saying?

I know this is not what you really think b/c later on you stated "If it was a married male and a single male, would it be a problem? I seriously doubt it." So I think the only reason you dont believe her or have doubts about it its b/c 1SG is on your butt about it, thats it.

I am glad you are standing up for your Soldier though, good luck and keep it up.

I really hate when NCO's throw that term around, "Perception." To me, its just a cop-out phrase they use to avoid taking responsibilty for their own short comings or lack of influence. Hey so and so thinks you do this, so lord knows it must be true! Perception has nothing to do with knowing the difference between right or wrong.

My NCO is a married man of 5 years and two little kids.
I was his first female soldier and almost right away there were rumors going around that him and I were getting "fresh" with each other. Which was a load of S*** and we both knew it.

When we deployed it just got worse too. The guys took my hard work and him not having to babysit me as him playing favorits. People talking S*** when we would run to the gym together after shift and eat breakfast and dinner.
If he hadn't have had the BALLS to stand up to the CoC and say WTF is up with you guys listening to these stupid rumors, then a lot worse then smack talking would have happened.

Untill you can prove there is something going on, rumors is all that there is. Not every female is there to spread her legs open, nor is every guy out there to nail anythin that moves.

Have faith in your troops....

Well said.

In a deployed situation, much like what was said earlier, is that rumors are everywhere.

It's the ability of leaders to ensure there's no truth to them.

You have a tough situation but it's a good thing you stood up and believed in your Soldier.

-C.A.

True story. Perception is bad.. Didn't think I was going to be part of the fratenization drama.. but apparently everyone was talking about me and another student.. needless to say, I lost my Honor Grad...all because of rumors and perception that were totally false. The NCO's did not help, in fact-they contributed to the b.s.. Needless to say, I went up the chain but that didn't help me any.