I was skimming through last weeks Army Times and on page 52 of the Opinion section there was a letter from 1LT Patrick Koucheravy. He was writing in reference to a past article that was written about War Zone Hip Hop.

1LT Koucheravy basically said that the majority of the Soldiers that are featured on the CD “Voices from the Frontline” should not be singing about the experiences on “the frontline” because the majority of them are as he termed them, “fobbits”.

1LT Koucheravy goes on to explain that in his eyes there are two types of Soldiers; Fighters and Supporters who fight occasionally. He goes on to say that he has upmost respect for comat service and support soldiers who serve with infantry units and contribute ot the team’s success.

Although the article starts out talking about the war zone hip hop, it quickly turns into a CSS and all the others not working side by side with the infantry.

So, I welcome any intelligent discussion about the ideas of this 1LT.

Actually I'm reclassed CSS 92Y2P in a Airborne Cav unit, I also cop a secondary of 21B2PB6 with Sapper School and a 3rd of 88L2O (Trans Watercraft). I spend more time teaching 19D's and 11B's about what makes things go boom. So I think (and this is IMHO) that it doesn't matter what the 1LT thinks I mean after all I got Kiwi with more time in combat then him.

It doesn't matter if you are Combat Arms or Combat Service Support. You are still a soldier, trained in the basics. You can still shoot, move and communicate. And sometimes those of us old soldiers that can't handle the line (due to injury or needs of the Army) CSS is where we end up at. But just because I'm 92 Series, don't think I forgot the MOSs I held prior. I have a head full of knowledge. I think he just doesn't understand the One Army Concept. And just because some soldiers never leave the FOB (a lot of time it's not by choice it's by the CoC's guidance) they are still in the line of fire by missles, breached perimeters and Snipers. So to him I say pfffft! We FOB Jockies still keep it real. Besides, without us he'd be throwing rocks and using Tin cans with String to communicate. Logistics, the life line of the Army!

SGT R. Munson

"All The Way, Sir!"

Being a 25F, enlisted, and serving in a fobbish environment presently....that was a triple kick in the nads. When downrange I know that foxes serve as gunners, patrolmen, door kicker teams etc. That is the nature of the situation over there. We pull the triggers...not just push to talk! This officer has a serious ego issue, and hopeless misunderstanding of the youth's outlet in the form of hip-hop, rock, masturbation.

So that's why there is an Officers lounge and then an Enlisted club. Can't imagine hearing this guy blab on over drinks after work...at least without someone finding him lumped up with his head in a urinal...actually that's quite fitting for a d%#$K.

respectfully sir.

nothing worse than someone running off at the mouth when they only have an oppinion on a matter.

every movement needs support and every support needs a reason or theres no point in either.

in addition to that, not everyone can be the fighter and not everyone is born to be a supporter.

it doesnt make any one any more of a sissy! thats the same as saying, "if you're just in the infantry but not airborne and ranger qualified, special forces qualified and maybe even some scuba schooling then your a gay sissy wetpatch"!

heck, i was in the infantry (11B) but i wish i had done something more useful and interesting like supply!

I'll tell you what, people take support MOSs totally for granted. Infantry, cavalry, yes, even MPs; they all think they're the shit, and that they can take care of themselves. Hey, even I thought that. Until I went to work in Battalion, that is. That's when my eyes were really opened to a world of soldiers that lives to support the troops, and do it well. Maybe they don't go into combat as mush as you do, but without them, you might not have that, experience. People need to just stop thinking with their egos and do their jobs.

He apparently doesn't know that much about combat units, MOS's, and what makes them run. Shame, he's probably a Platoon leader somewhere; that's okay, may the finance clerks F**k up his pay, especially that hazardous duty and imminent fire pay, S1 screw up his orders and leave forms, and all the other "FOB jockies" remember his name shall they ever cross paths.

I was hoping to find the actual article before commenting but the Army Times website won't let me read it unless I become a subscriber.

Does anyone have a link?

I know this discussion string is months old, but...

I stand by what I wrote in the Army Times and since I've had a lot of the same complaints over my letter (such as I've got a huge ego, I don't appreciate the support I get, obviously I'm an inexperienced PL whose men hate him, etc.) let me clarify my position.

I do not have any problem with support personnel. My problem is with those personnel who over-talk and over-emphasize their contributions. It would be the same as if I started talking about how I was an "operator" or said that I do the same thing as the Rangers. I'm a paratrooper infantryman, I know my place, I know my limitations and you won't find me on TV, Radio, or on the shelves of a record store tooting my own horn or making more of myself than I am.

My problem is with those support personnel who you see on the news every week talking about "putting their lives on the line" and other such dramatic cliches that CNN and MSNBC eat up. I believe one of the lines from "Voices from the Frontlines" -- yes, I've listened to the CD -- talks about how he's got Iraqis lives in his hands and he can see the fear in their eyes. Give me a break, he was a supply clerk or something.

Instead of actually reading and thinking on my article, you make assumptions such as that I don't know how a battalion runs. I've been a PL for a year, XO for a year, and on battalion staff for many months now with three deployments under my belt. I can assure you that I do not have "only an opinion on the matter," SPCA, I have my own experiences in combat in all three of my duty positions to back it up. Oh, and I have several friends that are enlisted. Bring that attitude to our bar when we're out and see whose head ends up in the urinal. Almost as bad as snobby officers are the enlisted who assume we're all prep-school rich kids. You can shove that "stay at the O'Club" stuff up your ass. And ArmyWaterCraft, if you think that I'm wrong just because you're old and crusty and your Kiwi's got more time in service than I do, go research a real argument and get back to me.

In short: do your job well, be proud of what you do, but don't make yourself out to be Rambo if you're not. "Voices from the Frontline" was the epitome of pogue self-promotion and self-pity and THAT is what I have a problem with.

Sir....
lol, So let me get this right...You decided to defend your column by posting to the soldiers with internet toughness? How is that not an EGO problem?

Its True- 11Bs "earn" thier pay. But dont also the cooks, the riggers, the preventive med guys, the 42Ls who are serving as mail clerks? -- If not, they would'nt be in theatre.
Your right, to OFFENSIVELY seek the enemy is the job of the infantry, but having an edge or a BRAVADO about what you do in the army...is what WE as soldiers do. I know plenty Bravos who were dirtbags and spent the whole tour in the FOB in the orderly room. When they got back to the rear, they too had thier chest out. The combat patch, along with the other patches- while they should instill pride in one's acomplishments really do nothing more than make the haves, look down on the have nots. Right?

As a Infantryman, could you return from your tour and tell a 88M you "earned" your patch more so than he...or SHE? Of course you couldnt.

We all need an outlet. I dont think its fair for you to jump on support for playing into the media's circus of our operations. Sure they use those supply guys to get a good story- but you are actually feeding the same vein by submitting an article to the ARMY TIMES. lol, right?

I am a combat medic and I have yet to meet a bravo who didnt appreciate ANY additional help along the way. What you are doing essentially is expanding the gap between the "shooter" and the "ammo dog".

One mission, One team.

Oh yeah, Welcome back. lol

Sir!

Everyone needs a little help sometimes.

quote:

Originally posted by PKoucheravy:
My problem is with those personnel who over-talk and over-emphasize their contributions. It would be the same as if I started talking about how I was an "operator" or said that I do the same thing as the Rangers. I'm a paratrooper infantryman, I know my place, I know my limitations and you won't find me on TV, Radio, or on the shelves of a record store tooting my own horn or making more of myself than I am.


I've been a PL for a year, XO for a year, and on battalion staff for many months now with three deployments under my belt. I can assure you that I do not have "only an opinion on the matter," SPCA, I have my own experiences in combat in all three of my duty positions to back it up. Oh, and I have several friends that are enlisted. Bring that attitude to our bar when we're out and see whose head ends up in the urinal.

I smell a HYPOCRITE in our midst. (Self-promotion?!?!)

Don't come to this forum and spew your hypocritical garbage against these members. If you want to intelligently discuss your opinions, be my guest.

If you EVER threaten these Soldiers with putting heads in urinals or personally attack another member, you'll be gone faster than a "pogue" can slam a door in your face at lunch time!

quote:

If you EVER threaten these Soldiers with putting heads in urinals or personally attack another member, you'll be gone faster than a "pogue" can slam a door in your face at lunch time!

I love NCOs who know how to take care of their "Soldiers" (even though this is only an internet discussion.

i'd give up my HAAP to be your S-1 NCOIC....

Sir,
With all due respect you as a commissioned officer of all people should realize that while the grunts ( yes I am an 11B)will give crap to the people who don't leave the fob, we can not do it without them. When I first went down range last March, I had the thoughts of the "fobbits" as no good. But you know what, they fixed my gear, fixed my trucks, and coordinated the CAS to come save my team ass from a major ambush. I have done combat ops, as well as some staff time at the BDE level. I have also been one of those " fobbits " working at a emergency respone center in Baghdad only going out a few times a month. I did not have a say in the matter of where I went and who I would work under. As from what I can take by your opinions is that since I wasn't kicking in doors, or having the enemy in my sight all 490 plus days I was not a full hardcore trigger puller. Time have changed. You have cooks, being gunners and combat MOS pulling DFAC and PX guard. Its not the lower level soldiers choice, it is what their CoC handed down, and they did it to the best of their ability. I as a soldier will wear the combat patches of the units I worked for with pride,as well as my CIB knowing that for whatever mission I did for them, I did my part in accomplishing the mission, and helping to make sure the joes come home safe

PS-Please don't mind the spelling, been up for 22 hours
"I AM THE INFANTRY FOLLOW ME"

The measure of a man does not depend on what side of the wire he is on.

I served in a CSH (combat support hospital). I left the wire once. I probably saw more maimed and/or dead Soldiers and kids than most 11B's could stand. I would've have gave anything to go fight, especially when one of our own didnt't make it. But I couldn't. Not by choice, but by duty. I even volunteered for patrols, but was denied. Even still, we had mortars and snipers who were happy to make the wire irrelevant.

This isn't gloating or bragging. I just want to make the point, as has been stated before, that we serve to the best of our ability wherever we are assigned, whether it be by your side, 1LT Koucheravy, or back on the FOB hoping it's a slow day at the CSH.

*singing* He's an egomaniac, egomaniac, on the floor... And he's prancing like he's never pranced before....

I won't go too much further into this, because this topic probably won't be open much longer. All I can say, is- Get real, people. If you think that you're the only one who has seen some crap, then you need to take a serious time out and open your eyes. Nobody has the right to decrease the validity of someone else's service.

AR smells a hypocrite... I smell a West Point grad. Sounds like something my sister would say...