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Serious NCOER questions (HELP)
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Picture of MSG W
posted Hide Post
You cannot put that you were arrested on an NCOER.

They can reword it to say that you exercised poor judgment and mention whatever situation, though.
 
Posts: 403 | Location: Ft. Lewis, WA | Registered: 30 May 2008Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of MattU
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by hangungen2012:
few more questions.... Is it against the regs for my senior rater to write my entire NCOER while my actual rater is deployed? I never recieved a change of rater or quarterly counselings. I'm looking through the regs and can't find anything about it. Just doesn't seem right. I provided the reg that states since my charges were dropped it couldn't go on my NCOER but they are trying to find a loop hole.


The only way a Senior Rater can be your Rater also is for the Rater to be incapacitated, MIA, dead, or officially relieved. That is, unless your Senior Rater is a Flag Officer (General/Admiral) or a Senior Executive Service (SES) Federal civilian employee.

AR 623-3
quote:
Section V
Special Evaluation Reporting Requirements
2–20. Loss of a rating official or rated Soldier
Special rules apply when a rating official is eliminated from the rating chain or is unable to render an evaluation of the rated Soldier. These situations occur when a rating official dies, is declared missing, is relieved of his or her position or duties for cause, or becomes mentally or physically incapacitated to such an extent that he or she is unable to render an objective or accurate evaluation. When a rating official is officially relieved or determined to be incapacitated, he or she will not be permitted to evaluate his or her subordinates. This restriction will apply to evaluation reports with “THRU” dates prior to the relief or incapacitation of the rating official that have not yet completed processing to the rated Soldier’s OMPF. The rules listed below apply:
...
b. Requirements for noncommissioned officer evaluation reports.
(1) When the rater is eliminated from the rating chain for any of the reasons cited above, it will be determined whether the minimum rating period for an evaluation report has been met (para 2–10a(1)).
...
(a) If the minimum rating period has not been met, the period is nonrated and a new rater will be designated.

(b) If the minimum rating period has been met, the senior rater will perform the rater’s functions, provided rater qualifications are met. The senior rater will serve as both the rater and senior rater. See paragraph 2–21 and DA Pam 623–3 for evaluation report procedures when the senior rater also serves as the rater.

(2) The removal of the senior rater or reviewer from the rating chain will be treated as a routine change. A new rating official will be designated and he or she may participate in the evaluation process after completing the minimum
time requirements in position.

(3) When a rating official is removed from his or her duty position for cause, or suspended, he or she will not render or receive evaluation reports, until his or her status (and, thus, his or her ability to serve as a rating official) is decided.

(a) When a rater or senior rater is suspended, the suspended time will be counted as nonrated time on the rated NCO’s evaluation report.

(b) If relieved, the provisions of this paragraph will apply.

(c) If not relieved, the provisions of this paragraph do not apply, and evaluation reports held pending a status determination must be completed.

(4) When the senior rater performs the functions of the rater, the rating period of the report will be the period the senior rater has been in the rating chain.


So there you have it. Unless one of the qualifying conditions is met, your senior rater cannot also be your rater. Anything else is the wrong answer.

Good Luck!

Matt


CH-47D/F Mechanic
Technical Inspector

AR 670-1/Regulation Mafia
 
Posts: 394 | Location: Camp Humphreys, ROK | Registered: 25 June 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of MattU
posted Hide Post
As for mentioning charges that were dropped, SFC W was correct; that cannot be mentioned. Here is the reg:

AR 623-3
quote:
3–19. Unproven derogatory information
Any mention of unproven derogatory information in an evaluation report can become an appealable matter if later the derogatory information is unfounded.

a. No reference will be made to an incomplete investigation (formal or informal) concerning a Soldier.

b. References will be made only to actions or investigations that have been processed to completion, adjudicated, and had final action taken before submitting an evaluation report to HQDA. For example, rating officials are not prohibited from commenting on a court-martial (judicial), if completed, but the comments should focus on the behavior that led to the court-martial rather than the court-martial itself. If the rated Soldier is absolved, comments about the incident will not be included in the evaluation.

c. This restriction is intended to prevent unverified derogatory information from being included in evaluation reports. It will also prevent unjustly prejudicial information from being permanently included in a Soldier’s OMPF,
such as—
(1) Charges that are later dropped.
(2) Charges or incidents of which the rated Soldier may later be absolved.
...
e. Reports will not be delayed to await the outcome of a trial or investigation unless the rated Soldier has been removed from his or her position and is in a suspended status (paras 3–54 and 3–55). Upon completion of the trial or investigation, processing of evaluation reports will resume. Evaluation reports will be completed when due and will contain what information is verified at the time of the “THRU” date of the report.


There is no wiggle room in there. If your rating chain go against regs, you have a good case for appeal and/or IG action.

Good Luck!

Matt


CH-47D/F Mechanic
Technical Inspector

AR 670-1/Regulation Mafia
 
Posts: 394 | Location: Camp Humphreys, ROK | Registered: 25 June 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post

posted Hide Post
ok so latest and greatest.... They took the bullet off my ncoer completely. There is nothing negative on the entire thing and still my senior rater is giving me a 3-3.. WTF? The senior rater comments aren't good but nothing terrible. Can I still appeal this and win?
 
Posts: 8 | Location: 7th SFG | Registered: 02 January 2013Reply With QuoteReport This Post

posted Hide Post
I hate to say it but a 3/3 is a success I dont know how much value the number rating holds. I always like to think the substance of the bullet is what counts the most.
 
Posts: 625 | Registered: 19 July 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of MattU
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by hangungen2012:
ok so latest and greatest.... They took the bullet off my ncoer completely. There is nothing negative on the entire thing and still my senior rater is giving me a 3-3.. WTF? The senior rater comments aren't good but nothing terrible. Can I still appeal this and win?


Without seeing the actual NCOER, and not knowing the ENTIRE situation, no one can really give you any further information other than wild guesses.

You can always appeal, but no one can guarantee the outcome. Again, if the Rater does not fall into the categories noted in the reg, then your Senior Rater cannot fill both roles. Appeal THAT, not the 3-3.

Good Luck!

Matt


CH-47D/F Mechanic
Technical Inspector

AR 670-1/Regulation Mafia
 
Posts: 394 | Location: Camp Humphreys, ROK | Registered: 25 June 2010Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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