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posted
Gentlemen:

Would really appreciate some advice from fellow NCOs...I have been presented with a draft NCOER which would:

-Leave a 9-month gap in my official record,

-Omit that I graduated WLC during the rating period- when my nearest competition has not attended it;

-Omit my civilian education,

-Falsely claims that I failed the height/weight standards, and

-Gives a misleading impression of my PT performance, ignoring substantial improvement (best PT score ever, in 8 years service).

I was then told essentially, to sign it or else.

My understanding is that I have at least 4 options here: 1) Follow the chain (naturally) and try to work it out with the immediate rater; 2) Bring the errors to the attention of the senior raters as well, 3) Request in writing a Commander's Inquiry, and 4) Request a formal NCOER appeal.

Is anyone aware of a sample letter to request a Commader's Inquiry? And is there any alternative to signing an incomplete, false, misleading, NCOER, then spending many months appealing it? One of my mentors, an old E-8, is telling me to sign it, but right in big letters, "I do not concer with this NCOER..."

Many thanks!
 
Posts: 2 | Registered: 01 January 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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I was also told that usually if you dont like the NCOER and you were not counseled on the dates listed. Like mine for instance, I never recieved one counseling statement during my rating period last year. I didn't like what the NCOER said and I than told my rater I wasn't even counseled on these dates. He re did the NCOER and we agreed on everything and I ended up signing it. Once again this period, I have no counseling statements and if I dont like the NCOER I am not signing it.
 
Posts: 261 | Registered: 10 November 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of SSGMP
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Since we are on this subject, I was under the impression that signing your NCOER isnt for weather you agree or dissagree, all your signiture is for, is to confirm that the administrative portion is correct...
Is this right or wrong?
 
Posts: 52 | Location: Fort Richardson Alaska | Registered: 23 December 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post


Career Counselor
Picture of ArmyReenlistment
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quote:
Originally posted by SGTMP:
all your signiture is for, is to confirm that the administrative portion is correct...


Exactly! Cool


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Posts: 6763 | Location: Joint Base Myer-Henderson Hall | Registered: 31 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post


Career Counselor
Picture of ArmyReenlistment
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quote:
Originally posted by frank82:
Once again this period, I have no counseling statements and if I dont like the NCOER I am not signing it.


Ever consider asking to be counseled, which is monthly now, not just quarterly.

Seems to me that you are simply playing the system and holding the non-counselling against your rater. Step up and be a better NCO than the one you have and DEMAND (in a professional way) that you be counseled on a monthly basis.


It's YOUR career! Take control of it before someone else does.
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Posts: 6763 | Location: Joint Base Myer-Henderson Hall | Registered: 31 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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quote:
Originally posted by ArmyReenlistment:
quote:
Originally posted by frank82:
Once again this period, I have no counseling statements and if I dont like the NCOER I am not signing it.


Ever consider asking to be counseled, which is monthly now, not just quarterly.

Seems to me that you are simply playing the system and holding the non-counselling against your rater. Step up and be a better NCO than the one you have and DEMAND (in a professional way) that you be counseled on a monthly basis.


Heres the situation, my rater is a civilian. We usually agree on the NCOER, past NCOs hes had he has let them write their own NCOER. I will probably be doing it this time. Do you get counseled every month?
 
Posts: 261 | Registered: 10 November 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post


Career Counselor
Picture of ArmyReenlistment
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Yes, I do get counseled every month. I am fortunate to have a great relationship with my supervisor. His rater counsels him and he comes back and we sit down and talk. It's just that simple.


It's YOUR career! Take control of it before someone else does.
http://www.ArmyReenlistment.com
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Posts: 6763 | Location: Joint Base Myer-Henderson Hall | Registered: 31 December 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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Honestly none of the NCOs in my unit get counseled and all of em pretty much write there own NCOERs. My first NCOER was pretty much the same as the last guy who held my slot just changed the administrative part up of course and added some things to it. I get along with my supervisor also and he would never give me a bad NCOER.
 
Posts: 261 | Registered: 10 November 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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Gentlemen:

I'm the SGT who wrote the orginal post. Can anyone tell me about "Change of Rater NCOERS?" This draft as written would leave a nine-month gap in my records. My understanding is that you can't have a gap in the records, you have to account for all the time and do a fair, complete assesment of the NCO's performance.

Can anyone refer me to a sample letter to request a Commander's Inquiry? How are they usually worded? I've been searching the ARs, but haven't seen one.

"Career Counselor," thank you for responding, but your suggesting I simply sign a horrendous NCOER that would destroy my promotion prospects is not helpful. Would you sign it if your promotion was on the line?

Of course I am attempting to follow my chain to the letter, but at the same time, I am also preparing my contingency plans should I have ot follow those steps, to show that I am serious about receiving a fair, complete, and accurate NCOER, as the regs require.

As to completing WLC...and interesting point here...in my old unit, before I had attended WLC, it was specifically mentioned that I had not attended it yet on my NCOER. In my present unit, my nearest competition has not attended WLC, while I have, and did well. Yet this is not mentioned on a reveiw supposed ot fairly and completely assess, among toher things, my miltary schooling during the rating period. I feel that this draft is clearly written in a way that downplays my acheivements and highlights my shortcomings, in order to present me in a bad light to the promotion board, and to unfairly favor my competition, who the rater clearly favors...

"Career Counselor," would really apprecaite your help and advice in adressing my specific questions, rather then simply telling me I should just sign an incomplete, inaccurate, unfair NCOER- the most imprtant document in an NCO's record- that would destroy my promotion prospects.

Many thanks to all who can offer me some advice!
 
Posts: 2 | Registered: 01 January 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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Where does it Say NCO's are to get Counseled Every month? In DA PAM 623-3 it still says Quarterly?? But I am probably not looking deep enough. LEAD ME


"Sometimes the roots of democracy have to be watered with the blood of patriots"
 
Posts: 248 | Location: Ft Hood! | Registered: 04 December 2003Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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SGT CAV TANKER,
For the last time, your signature only verifies the admin data. I suggest you speak with your CSM if there was any issues with your counseling dates and I recommend you quit wasting your time and everyone elses time with your silly questions and do some research on your own into the regulations that cover NCOERs.
There are two kinds of people, those that wait for things to happen to them and those that make things happen for them. Those that wait, usually don't like the things that happen to them and waste everyone elses time complaining because they feel like they got something they didn't deserve when in fact they got exactly what they deserved. YOU WRITE YOUR OWN NCOER BY YOUR ACTIONS AND DEEDS!
 
Posts: 1 | Registered: 21 February 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of Smittaayy
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DA PAM 623–3
Counseling sessions will be conducted at least quarterly for Active Army and AGR NCOs and at least semiannually for ARNGUS and USAR NCOs performing IDT.

It doesn't mandate monthly counseling, but if you want to exceed the standard, then you probably shouldn't stop at quarterly.


____________________________________________________


 
Posts: 1086 | Location: Germany | Registered: 11 February 2005Reply With QuoteReport This Post

Picture of Dreamstalker
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A couple things here. First off to answer the question about what your signature on an NCOER means just go read an NCOER right next to your signature. Second as far as WLC is concerned. Your 1059 you got from school is in your records just like an NCOER and they get looked at just as much. That is why it is not that big of a deal if it is in your NCOER. Also on the issue of being counseled monthly. I also remember a memo coming out from SGM of the Army if believe that talked about NCOs getting counseled monthly.
 
Posts: 330 | Location: Ft Campbell  | Registered: 11 October 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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quote:
recommend you quit wasting your time and everyone elses time with your silly questions


Isn't that what this forum is made for?

We all know that some or alot of supervisors do not do counselings as they should, be it monthly or quarterly as long as it gets done and the rated individual learns and grows from it, is all that matters.

If your rater gives you a "bad" ncoer than you probably deserved it.


OIF I/OIF III/OEF VIII
HOOAH!!
NCOs Lead the Way!!!
 
Posts: 23 | Location: AFGHANISTAN | Registered: 04 May 2004Reply With QuoteReport This Post

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I also would be curious to see an example of a request to have a Commanders Inquiry.

Signature only states that the admin data is correct.

Side note: If your rater gives you a bad NCOER it doesn't always mean you deserved it.
 
Posts: 3 | Registered: 03 September 2007Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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