little confused here and seeking guidance. i've been an NCO for seven years, pcs'ed three times as an NCO, been in recruiting, worked at all levels, made SFC my first look, sat in for the OPS SGM yadda yadda yadda so the NCOER thing isnt new to me. i've had several different raters (some good, some bad) but always got a 1/1 and have strong bullets to back it up. i can honestly say this rating period my NCOER is stronger than it has ever been. i got asked two weeks ago if i would sit in as a battery 1sg for a few months (even though ive only been with this unit for 9 months) until they have a MSG incoming that can take the diamond position even though that battery has three other SFCs.
not trying to toot my own horn.... but i know its hard to look in the mirror and most 2 blocks are justified. no matter how good people try and convince you they are they aren't.
a little back story here is i am the assistant operations sgt for a BN S3 and my senior rater (a cpt from our sister bn) pcs'ed in 90 days ago as the operations OIC. we had a bn lvl clfx a month after he arrived and the implied task for me was to assist the OPS SGM by making sure the BTRYs understood their timelines, equipment needs, the ammo draw and distro and turn in went smooth, the tasked detail were on point. so the DAY BEFORE the clfx kicks off at 1400 he pulls the entire s3 into the conference room for an IPR. low and behold im told i am the RSO for "admin purposes" and would also be the tower operator. im also told i would have a tent, generator and heat. i told him i cant be the tower operator because as the RSO im responsible for range safety and need to be on the ground with the convoys to give a safety brief / mitigate risk. that was strike one, he was pissed but nothing he could do. second strike i told him s3 doesnt have a generator / tent organic to us due to it being down range (amazed me he didnt know what property we have on our hand receipt) but i coordinated with our alpha btry to co-use their TOC the first day and sign for it the rest of the CLFX for use the rest of the exercise. he agreed and that was that. day of the clfx the BN XO blows him up as to why we dont have our own tent. he threw me under the bus even though he agreed to it the night before and i took the heat round (no sweat that's what we do as NCOs) mind you i wasnt the NCOIC for the CLFX either it was another SFC from the S3. that whole first day went extremely bad for him, the medivac he coordinated for wasnt able to land because the officer he put in charge recon'ed the wrong LZ. the BN XO blew him up for that because you could hear the chopper hover'in looking for us for over 45 mins while he deconflicted it over the radio wasting training time. he also got blown up again for telling the land and ammo to not order any smoke. the whole day went crazy for him but the unit going through the CLFX couldnt tell they still got good training minus the 45 minus waiting on the bird that never came. i sat back an laughed because he took zero input from his NCOs before the CLFX and relied solely on his officers and paid the price.
i learned later thats how he operates. doesnt include his NCOs in any part of the planning, all officer 100% of the time until the day of and gets pissed if u warn him what he is doing is going to create problems if doesnt mitigate the issue (example he sent a 2lt to be an rso for a 9mm range who didnt have his range safety certification card from range control yet because he received the class two days before, i brought the issue up to him after talking to range control about it and offered to go in the 2lt place, he sent the lt anyway, range got shut down with the bn cdr there because before you open the range range control asks over the phone if the rso and oic have range cards on them, the OIC said he didnt lol, i ended up going anyway and that was his first week as the s3 oic).
ive kept the distance from him since that CLFX. he's held a grudge for something that wasnt my fault so that relationship was never built. ive taken charge of almost everything else our s3 has done behind the scenes with the other officers to ensure we were on track like our advon redeployment, main body redeployment, bn sports day and ran openly with direction from our CSM an NCO induction ceremony, nco / soldier of the quarter week long competition. no one, to include the other officers in the s3, or other sections like the guy.
do i have a leg to stand on? is there some way to get it over turned other than the review checking non concur, can u really get a 2 block with five excellent ratings?
Talk to rating chain. I know it sounds like what everyone says, but it is the best course of action. It has been awhile since I have read the regulation of appealing NCOERs, but if it isn't adminstrative, I know it is hard to get changed. You would need signed letters citing specific instances of performance and reasons why it should be change and so on and so on. Even then, I have *heard* only a very small percentages of appeals are successful.
I feel your pain. Over the years I have have every combination of Senior Ratings between 1/1 and 2/2. I don't know how much that actually wieghs. What bothers me more are the NCOERs with shitty bullets. Sometimes I had to rewrite them myself, or walk my Rater through it. One time it was written like a 5th grader and no one up to and including the CSM would help me get them changed. The system is flawed.
I would talk to the rating chain. However, any board member (that's what you're worried about right?) will look at your excellence blocks and then look at your bullets to see if the bullets support the excellence ratings. As long as your bullets are strong, I wouldn't worry too much about the senior rater's ratings because any SGM/CSM is going to look at 5 excellent bullets and then look at a 1/2 and think your senior rater is a moron. I would be more worried about the senior rater's comments. Make sure he doesn't put any BS in there like "promote with peers".
Suck it up! Any CSM looking at your NCOER's know who's an Outstanding leader from the bullets than looking to see if its a 1,1 the real issue is those who have a 1,1 with a 2,3 write up!
Dude, you are complaining about a 1/2? 2/1? While EVERY other eval has been spotless, and your bullets are hardcore? I think your careeer can take this hit.. learn to fight the necessary battles.
As for the OIC, what have you done to cover your ass? When these conversations happen with the S3 OIC what SNCO leadership do youdiscuss it with? ANY time I have an issue with an Officer (and in the joint world where i work, i deal with primariys O5 and up) I will take the conversation IMMEDIATLY to my senior leadership to ensure my side is told/known and i have CYA.
If you arent communicating with your NCO Support channel, you are wrong. In this case your 1SG/SGM/CSM should be your best friend. If they know the issue then they can fight for you if something goes haywire...
Who do you think the BN CDR will listen to more, the S3 Ops OIC or his CSM???
Protect yourself better mans, thats the only real adivce i can give you.
NCO's Lead The Way!
SFC Nick Martinez B Co, 3rd MI BN (AE) Camp Humphreys, KOR
“I am the punishment of God... If you had not committed great sins, God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you.” ― Genghis Khan
Posts: 273 | Location: HQ J2, USSTRATCOM, Offutt AFB, NE | Registered: 20 April 2011
While I do not know you personally or professionally, I am my BN S-1 NCOER NCO. I read regs and NCOERs most of the day if nothing else pops up.
Over the last few years, NCOs have been getting into the mindset that anything less than a 1/1 is career failure. That's wrong. A 2/2 is entirely admirable. According to the reg, a 3/3 means you are entirely capable and you are a competent NCO leader.
I see so many NCOERs that are marked 1/1 but the bullets (or even the Part IV blocks) are less than stellar or even satisfactory. I have seen NCOERs that are "Fully Capable" all the way down, yet are SR Rated 1/1. I have also seen 2/2 NCOERs with Part IV bullets that clearly state that the rated NCO "needs improvement." This needs to stop. Raters seem to be so afraid of giving 2s or 3s due to this misunderstanding that a 1/1 is the ONLY rating that signifies a capable NCO/leader.
Now I am not saying that if an NCO deserves a 1/1 that s/he shouldn't get it, I am saying that the other blocks are put on the 2166-8 for a reason. Word is that NCOERs are going to have FIVE blocks in the very near future, in order to give raters more granular rating choices.
But to answer your question, if your Senior Rater and Rater give differing evaluations, then a memo must be attached to the 2166-8 explaining the discrepancy. Appeals are also an option if there is verifiable proof of some type of hinkyness going on with the evaluation. Appeals are covered in AR 623-3.
CH-47D/F Mechanic Technical Inspector
AR 670-1/Regulation Mafia
Posts: 394 | Location: Camp Humphreys, ROK | Registered: 25 June 2010
i def appreciate the responses and can say i over reacted a little. it's a punch in the gut to be blind sided and there is nothing anyone can do about it but part of me wants to walk into his office after its signed (he is PCSing soon anyway) and tell him the only way he could hurt me with a 2 block (which i honestly think its personnel) is to ball up the ncoer and hit me in the eye with it.
regardless thank you for the support and take it from me, repair / rebuild a shaky relationship with your rating chain even if you think they are unprofessional.