First off I would like to start off this post by saying the topics I bring to you, a group of professional soldiers with varying opinions and and pride, I bring to you with humility and grace. I'd don't want to sound inflated or boastful, I just need some help...

For years, I have always been a good soldier and great NCO. I am known in my MOS specialty community acrooss the Army as not only a good leader and follower, but also a VERY technically proficient member of any TPU unit I join and one of the best in my field. Which is one of the reasons I am having such a problem digesting my latest NCOER. My rater wrote me a wonderful NCOER. I looked at it and was ready to sign it until I saw the comments placed on it by my senior rater. My senior rater gave me...two THREE's...at the end of my NCOER. When I asked my rater what the justification for this was he gave me a blanket justification..." you haven't gone to development classes". That was a lie. It was because we have disagreements on about everything. There is no doubt that I have had some personal issues with my senior rater. Since he arrived at my unit he has been setting up our wonderful soldiers to fail, repeatedly incapable of caring about anyone but himself and all around bringing down the moral of my unit. I am the only one to ever call him out on it, so he reflects his personal feeling in my NCOER.

So question, if I know his comments were the work of a personal vendetta he has about me, should I still sign the NCOER? If I don't sign it what should I do next? The bullets annotated by my rater were great and the Report shows that I am a good NCO, but my senior rater's comments were totally offline...

AfroNeeCeeOoh,

You need to become very familiar with AR 623-205. It will answer all your questions as far as the responsibilities of the senior rater and how to go about appealing an NCOER that you disagree with.

There is just to much info from the regulation that will fit into this post. Just be aware that your signature does not constitute agreement or disagreement with the evaluations. All it does is verify your info and APFT and height/weight are correct.

Page 57 from the reg will tell you how to appeal your NCOER.

Before you start appealing, the reviewer has to review the NCOER (duh thats what he does right? hehe) so after s/he reviews it, it will be noticed that there is a drastic difference between the awesome bullets and comments by your rater and the crappy comments by the Senior Rater, at that point s/he should be scheduling a meeting with both the rater and senior rater to talk about whats going on...

I personally wouldnt sign it, I dont care if my signature doesnt consititute agreement or not...but thats just me...oh and you sounded like you think you are all that with your little "I am known in my MOS specialty community across the Army" hahaha, really? come on guy...

quote:

Originally posted by TransAm95NCO:
...oh and you sounded like you think you are all that with your little "I am known in my MOS specialty community across the Army" hahaha, really? come on guy...

I dont think he asked for your opinion when it comes to his staus in his MOS career field. He may be one of the best, so who are you to put a troop down? He is not being conceited, he obviously feels he deserves to make that statement, and it is pertinent to his post. So stop bashing the guy and just put info that will help him out.

quote:

Originally posted by TransAm95NCO:
I personally wouldnt sign it, I dont care if my signature doesnt consititute agreement or not...but thats just me...

"If the NCO refuses to sign the report or is unavailable to sign the report, enter the appropriate statement “NCO refuses to
sign”

WOW you won that battle by not signing it still goes forward!

Well Mr. highspeed,

I can give my opinion whenever I want to, and if you knew anything depending on your unit they might not want to send that NCOER without your signature so by you refusing you could get someone to listen to you about why you dont want to sign it and get the help you need with your NCOER, and I did provide some info on what should be happening when the reviewer sees that NCOER, how about getting over whatever you have against me....really get over it...its going to be OK, not every thread that we both contribute to has to be closed b/c we argue...actually i am not going to argue with you...I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and give you one more chance after that I am blocking you, you are not worth it.

You provided info but obviously he does not need to appeal yet since it has nto been reviewed and processed up.

TransAm95NCO,

In your hurry to sharpshoot someones post once again, you failed to read the very first sentence that I replied to this individual with. I believe it said " You need to become very familiar with AR 623-205".
I just broke a few important parts of it down for him and where to reference them. But once again you had to make it seem like the info they were given is incorrect and your info is the only correct info. Stop being so critical of other peoples post if its not incorrect. Even then you can use tact which you dont have!

Wow. Um, thanks for the advice guys?

Okay...for the "known in my MOS community" comment? My MOS has a small community in the Army. 95% of us serve in the Reserves and it has been said that once you know a handful of us you know us all. So, yes, a lot of folks in my MOS community know me or have seen my work and think that I am good at what I do. However, I knew that if I started off my post with that comment that it could be construed as cocky. That is why I stated that I was coming into this post with humility. No ego here, champs...I just am a soldier with a problem.

Thank you for all the pertinent advice. 2HYSPD4U, I'll take what you said about page 57 and begin an appeal. I was actually getting ready to ask that question next...TransAm, my reviewer (who is my commander) has already expressed their dislike of the senior rater's abuse of power (among other things). She knows first hand that my senior rater did this to hurt my career. So this has gone past the reviewer level. But thanks for your advice anyhow.

So next question: Does NOT signing the NCOER hurt me? And how? Is that in 623-205? Thanks...

And lastly...

Ummm, I hate fights. Can we handshake and make up guys?

You said your commander agreed with you so I hope she did the following to your NCOER.....Has your NCOER been sent to USAEREC yet?


3–14. Reviewer nonconcurrence actions
When the reviewer disagrees with the rater and/or senior rater and marks the “nonconcur” block in part IIe of the
NCO-ER, an explanation enclosure is required. The bullet comment rules governing the completion of the DA Form
2166-8 itself do not apply. The enclosure rules of paragraph 3-24 apply (see fig 3-8). The reviewer is required to notify
the rater, senior rater, and rated NCO of nonconcurrence before the report is forwarded.

I have to agree with 2HYSP on this, you said your CO already reviewed it and know about the SR's abuse of power? and the NCOER still went up? was there a "non-concur" block checked, was a letter attached stating like 2hysp quoted on the reg?

I assume it has not been sent up yet since you have not signed it, right?

Oh just to add this too, AfroNeeCeeOoh, PLEASE, PLEASE read AR 623-205 in depth before you go on with the appeals process. If you dont know what your talking about when you attempt to appeal then its just going to get kicked back in your face.
But as TransAm95NCO stated there may not be a need to appeal at all. Your commander can have your rater and senior rater sit down and discuss the reasons for thier ratings with her. She can not force your senior rater to change his bullets but he may explain himself in way you understand why he rated you the way he did or he may see it your way and change his ratings if you all sit down together.
But you have to know your reg before you go to deep into this process!!!

I just checked my electronic copy of my NCOER...and unfortunately it has been signed by my commander. However, when I asked her why it was signed she said because she can't make my senior rater change his rating, but when it goes before a Senior NCO review board (before it is sent to USAREC) the blaring differences between my rater bullets and my senior rater comments will make them question the motives of the senior rater. Unfortunately she also wants to make battalion quotas so she just signed it and sent it up

As per your instructions, I have been reading 623-205 tonight. I will probably ask you guys a few more questions as this goes on, but no I haven't signed anything, no it has not been sent to any place yet, and yes, I promise not to go into an appeals process half-cock-a-mamie. Thanks again for all of your help

Did the Commander concur or non-concur?

You are always supposed to be the LAST PERSON to sign the review.

You should ask to speak w/ your 1SG or CSM, and maybe then talk with ALL 3 people on your NCOER together. Explain your questions and ask for an explanation.

Your Signature on the NCOER ONLY means you've seen it and that your data is correct, it doesn't mean anything about what you think of the NCOER.

If it is already in your permanent records you need to read the reg and appeal it. ASAP.

Sorry I'm so late in responding.

quote:

Originally posted by 2HYSPD4U:
You need to become very familiar with AR 623-205.

Replaced by 623-3 a couple of years ago.

And check DA Memo 600-1 (yeah, I know, dated 1985)...there might be some valuable appeals information in there. You can find it on USAPA.