I am writing my NCO-ER for a change of rater. I was at BNCOC for eight weeks (non-consecutive) during my rated period. I was also at four other military schools related to my additional duty. My rater told me that my time in BNCOC is nonrated time. Is that correct? I thought (and the reg seems to bear out) that the school must be 90 days or longer to be unrated time. Also, can I be rated for a duty position I have been present for only 14 days (again non-consecutive) over 6 months.
Thanks for your response, Chief. If I can ask a follow up then, do only NCOA schools count as unrated time? Or can I only be rated for the days I was in my unit? As I stated, I was in military schools for all but 14 days.
Originally posted by SSG Schwartz: Thanks for your response, Chief. If I can ask a follow up then, do only NCOA schools count as unrated time? Or can I only be rated for the days I was in my unit? As I stated, I was in military schools for all but 14 days.
SSG Schwartz
Well, for NCOER purposes, it is unrated time. However, technically your BNCOC IS rated time. Anything that produces a DA1059 is a rated school. The only reason you don't get rated in your unit for that time is because you are being rated by someone else at a school or whatever. Now, did you get DA1059s from your other MOS-related schools you were at? If you did NOT get a DA1059, then THAT time would be counted and rated on your NCOER.
For example, say my rater is about to write my annual NCOER.
Let's say I was in my unit 90 days (I'll try to tailor this to real life experience I have had). Now both my rater and senior rater can officially rate me for my performance in my unit (the senior rater after 60 days, the rater after 90) for those 90 days. Then I went to BNCOC for 8 weeks which produces a DA1059. From there I come back to the unit and go to Level Two Anti-terrorism Course for one week, which DOES NOT produce a DA1059 (only a diploma). I am then in my unit for seven months, and then go to the Master Driver's Course, which DOES NOT produce a DA1059.
The DA1059 would look like this:
3 months rated at unit > 2 months unrated time > 7 months rated time
Notice that even though I attended three Army schools, only one was counted as unrated time because the other two did not produce a DA1059.
This can become a problem, if for example, you are detailed out to something like gym detail or maybe you re-enlisted to go to school for a semester or something, because your NCOER will be terribly lacking. That doesn't necessarily mean you should get any needs improvements, but if you have only been in your duty position for a total of two weeks in over six months I wouldn't expect a single excellent either (unless you scored a 90/90/90 on your APFT or something like that).
In the same token, without evading the topic. can someone tell me this... I had my first annual in January and now my rater is leaving shouldn't I have a change of rater NCOER? is it proper for him to direct another NCO to start another initial wihtout giving me a change of rater NCOER? Please let me know!
Originally posted by skyshoter: In the same token, without evading the topic. can someone tell me this... I had my first annual in January and now my rater is leaving shouldn't I have a change of rater NCOER? is it proper for him to direct another NCO to start another initial wihtout giving me a change of rater NCOER? Please let me know!
In the way of the regulation, yes he should do the NCOER.
HOWEVER, the real world, I have never seen it work that way. Almost always they direct to another NCO (be prepared to help that NCO with your NCOER when it comes time) to do it. Frankly, I know it isn't supposed to work that way, but you will normally benefit from it. Reason being, you either have an NCO leaving and trying to fill up an NCOER with a few months of crap which will net you a piss poor NCOER, or you have another NCO taking in a whole year into account which usually leads to a better NCOER.
This is one of those things where most of the senior NCOs know the reg but are probably looking out for your best interest.
Originally posted by SSG Schwartz: Absolutely, it is clear now. I have two 1059's for the two schools and diplomas for the rest, so I can be rated for four months.
Go to the regulation and it will tell you all the codes for the non rated time and the explanations for them. You have school codes, intransit leave etc. The time that you are assigned to your unit counts as thetime they use to compute the NCOER. The issue isn't unrated time but time that is not reflected on your NCOER. As long as all time is accounted for with appropriate codes there will be no problems.
I have a question in regard to unrated time. I attended an ASI school from August 2005 until October 2006. After reporting to my new duty station following the training I was told that my DA 1059 would no longer count as an evalution in the way an NCOER does. This was confirmed to me by the Enlisted Evaluations branch. Basically, I have over one year of unrated time due to this. My question is this: What effect will this have on my E7 selection? I am currently an E5(p). I realize that it will probably be a few more years before I get looked at for E7, but I don't like surprises. Any info is appreciated.
PS: First time participant, long time observer.
"Never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy." -Winston Churchill
Originally posted by MaleSkirt: I have a question in regard to unrated time. I attended an ASI school from August 2005 until October 2006. After reporting to my new duty station following the training I was told that my DA 1059 would no longer count as an evalution in the way an NCOER does. This was confirmed to me by the Enlisted Evaluations branch. Basically, I have over one year of unrated time due to this. My question is this: What effect will this have on my E7 selection? I am currently an E5(p). I realize that it will probably be a few more years before I get looked at for E7, but I don't like surprises. Any info is appreciated.
PS: First time participant, long time observer.
Well technically your 1059 from your training doesn't count the same as an NCOER. A 1059 only evaluates your academic performance. Any schooling you receive a 1059 for will count as non-rated time on your NCOER. You should've most certainly received a change of rater NCOER before attending your ASI school.
Posts: 125 | Location: Fort Gordon, Georgia | Registered: 07 December 2007
I have a similar question. Is a rater authorized to rate you during a period when he himself is in a school that does count as unrated time? As a specific example, the rater leaves for a school 3 months into a rating period. He returns 4 months later simultaneously with an NCO senior to the rated individual. Does the old rater then meet the requirements to write a change of rater and pass the rated individual off to the new NCO, or does his unrated time prevent this?
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