25D CYBER NETWORK DEFENDER

I am a 25N30 tech level II 8570 compliant with a TS-SCI clearance. I would like to know more about this new MOS,and possibly reclass. I have talked with my branch manager who sent me to a site with porposed prereqs but no current info. I have spent a great deal of time researching this MOS and have since learned that the training is 14wks of SANS instruction. However, I would like more information about this MOS to include possible assignments. I would also like to know if this will be an MOS that will set me up for eventually becoming a 255S?

Thank You
Original Post
Thank you both for the input. Do you know where I could find more information on 25D? I have already contacted branch,who didn't know much about the MOS, and sent me a dated link on AKO. Also, my retention NCO is not tracking this MOS. I would really like to get into this MOS and, along with the above input, would really appreciate any more info that might be out there.
One of my concerns with this MOS is getting stuck in a vault. This is always a possibility for any unfortunate signal soul, but is this going to be a main purpose for the MOS?

Thank you
I don't believe so- I've been reading some of it on the discussions the 53 series Officers have going on.

It will be an 'active' MOS- there are already small groups of Soldiers (and especially AirMen!) who are engaging in some of this stuff. We're talking "No Such Agency"- so of course it doesn't get talked about much. Wink

It's likely an MOS where you would be in a specific Unit with others of the same MOS working the same missions.

Not really anything more I know, and some of the above ^^ is assumption. I know a guy who retired N SA last year and was involved in some cool stuffs which he could barely talk about at all. TS clearance etc...
Ok, I'm even more excited about this MOS now! From what I have learned from the above responses and prior research, this job is what I have been looking for. Hopefully, in the future I may be able to go directly to 255S. If not, then I still have an awesome and challenging job.
I guess now I just have to submit a 4187 or chat with my retention NCO again.

Thank you
quote:
Originally posted by Jesse G:
Signal2881, I am looking into reclassing to this MOS could you please share anymore information on 25D? Requirements, how to apply, Etc. It is not on any of the army sites.


The following URL is what my branch manager sent me;

http://www.signal.army.mil/signalsitemap.aspx

Go to the enlisted proponent office link and you will find the proposed prereqs.

Also if you look in ATRRS for 25D30 you will see the class info AND might notice that the prereqs are slightly different.

I also sent some documentation to the email address associated with your account, hope this helps.
Greetings,

I am currently in the 1st 25D Course. Details of the training or mission is "Need To Know", and disclosure could compromise the Teams. I will tell you that it is currently only open to 25B3Os (potentially opening to ALL MOSs in 2014), and the training is like nothing I have ever experienced in my 15+ yrs; I was C|EH Certified coming into this. I train and operate alongside the 255Ss. The recruitment link and video are found here:

http://www.7sigcmd.army.mil/CPTWeb/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...ture=player_embedded

Not everyone that applies gets in; the screening process is very thorough, and we want the best, both technical skills and personal character count here! I know I haven't said much, but I wish you luck, and maybe I'll see you on a Cyber Protection Team!
To those seriously interested in becoming a 25D.

In the past 2 months I have completed a number of cyber boot camps, during which, I have come to realize that there are certain skills you should possess when coming into this field to make the transition a smooth one:

1st: you should have a decent amount of Linux skills and knowledge, and be able to navigate your way in a Linux distro, like oh, BT5. there are several books on the topic; if you prefer videos, I recommend "CompTIA Linux+ 2009 CBT Training" at http://www.careeracademy.com You don't have to purchase another computer just to use Linux, instead use the FREE VM Player https://my.vmware.com/web/vmwa...ng/vmware_player/6_0 and create a VM of BackTrack http://www.backtrack-linux.org/ to use on your Windows box (be very careful as BT5 has exploits already built into it). YouTube has many how-to guides.

2nd: you will need to have a decent knowledge of and know how to implement Python code http://www.python.org ; a good start is the FREE Python tutorial http://www.learnpython.org/ . There are also several books on the subject; www.amazon.com sells quite a few. YouTube has a lot of Python Tutorials as well.

I hope this helps everyone interested in becoming a 25D. Even if you are not interested, share this with your Soldiers, as they might be.

Good Luck!

Cyber Dominance!
@Cyber Trail Blazer

Thanks for the insight into the course. It's good to know that what you are currently going through, or have finished by now, is what I am already training my Reserve Soldiers on. I was an instructor for the Air Force's Network Warfare Bridge Course and Intermediate Network Warfare Training. This solidifies the past years worth of training I have been providing.

I have contacted the proponent career manager and the SGM in charge of the 25D course for further information. Again, thanks for the insight.
Hi Ken Smiler looking forward to your arrival, Brother.

@Gliger: I am not sure that the MOS will open to SPC and below; the reason for this, is because there are 3 SPCs (25Bs) in the course right now (part of an unofficial pilot). They did not do so well on the entry 401 exam. We will know in a week or so if they will be allowed to continue in the course or be withdrawn. officially, I cannot say that their assessment will or will not determine the outcome of such a decision. These exams are not a cake-walk, like some of the other IT exams, and there is no test-dump to help you, as the question bank and books change every 45 days or so, to keep up with changing technology. Even if you make it through the 25D course successfully, the training and assessments do not end there.

Had this MOS and it's mission not been so ... how do say? hush hush .. I would gladly do my best to help all those by providing tips and training secrets, but that is not the case. I can tell you this .. the MOS training is not classified, and can be found on the web; it is much like if not more difficult than CISSP. Some of us had C|EH coming into this and found out that was like have A+ certification in this field. If you have the means to attend any ISSA Tech conferences in your area (ISSA is in most major cities) given by Cyber affiliates, like FIREEYE, SANS, ISC2, and the like, you will have an advantage in the course .. not to mention a really big headache, if you aren't well versed in Cyber.. I cannot say this enough, We 15 were ALL 25Bs, most of us experts in our fields, and we we're ALL very humbled by this course and even more so, the pipeline training that followed. Read BOOKS! Syngress has literally over 100 books all dedicated to the Cyber arena (I have read about 20 or so). Just go to www.amazon.com and type [syngress cyber] in the search bar, select the first book, scroll half way down the page and see related books "HINT".

I have been in for more than 15 yrs, and I used to believe the saying that you can train a monkey to do any job the Army has to offer, BUT that is NOT the case anymore. This course will be VERY challenging; it's supposed to be! We are constantly compared to Special Forces, don't ask me why, but I think it has something to do with the tough selection process.

In closing: To those applying, do not lie about your skills and knowledge, you will get caught, and you will be disqualified (remember we were just 25Bs too); doesn't matter that you are just an average 25B or whichever MOS you have, just that you have integrity. Expect to work on weekends during this course, and study long hours into the night. The more you read now(see BOOKS HINT above) the more advantage you will have. ISSA IT conferences are huge eye-openers into the cyber arena, and discounted for college students (I am still surprised at everyone that I attend, because I am still learning every time I go). DO NOT expect this course to ease-up or the field to get any easier; that's never going to happen; it's technology, and it's always changing (I like to compare it to Tommy Lee Jones kicking open the locker-door to show Will Smith that he's still a rookie - M.I.B. 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL3SGR85ymY ) it's a lot like that. If you have what it takes, and are willing to put in the hours, you will be successful, and I will be there to shake your hand at your graduation.

Don't worry if you're not-that Linux savvy, or never even heard of Metasploit, by the end of a year, you WILL know it well.

Good Luck!
Trailblazer,

I am a 255Sierra and had completed Comptia's Advanced Security Practitioner (CASP) and was able to use that as my level III certification in lieu of a CISSP to get selected into the program. When I arrived at the school, I met a former 25B in my unit that was in the pilot 25D course and he provided some good insight. For Warrants, they even started to waive the CISSP/level III requirements completely, as long as you had a solid packet.

Yes, the SANS test are challenging and what makes the 401 challenging is that you are not given books but just the on-demand so you have to resource whatever textbooks that are out there and make an adequate index. The beauty of the on-demand is that every answer to the question is in that course. It is just the e-book version of the textbooks. To me, I found forensics to be a killer and enjoyed intrusion analyst and windows security.

At least in the school house, you will get the books and can use them on the exam. I do not know if the SPCs that you mentioned were given those materials to pass. I had to take the 401 at my unit and pass it as a pre-requisite before being selected for the course. I had 401 done five months before I started the actual program.

Yes, Linux is something that should be now given in the schoolhouses. At least an overview. Soldiers should then always download VMware or Player and toy with any Linux flavor OS they prefer. It is open source, so it is free to download and install. I recommend Kali and Ubuntu.

I think the below is a good forum in engaging with Cyber Professionals of varying degrees of experience and industry to learn a lot about the job, tests and IT security in general.

http://www.techexams.net/forums/

But yes, I fully understand as to why you would want someone with some time in the field and rank to embark in this career. Since you have to have a broad IT experience; especially with knowledge in switches/routers/programming/HIPS/HBSS/Web Browsers/different OSes, I can see how it can be overwhelming.

I remember the days where you could earn a CCNA and get a six-figure job and not have a clue about PCs or any other type of hardware. With Cyber, you need to understand the gambit of IT out there to be at least credible in your discussions. That is why in this field, there is that elitist mentality.

Also, with this 25 series MOS, be expected to be constantly busy. And earn that TS clearance (which is required for Cyber anyway). Learning cyber defensive and offensive operations requires that.
@TheWiseChief

Congrats on successfully completing the 225S course!

The 3 SPCs did have the books, On-Demand, the whole package minus a physical instructor. There are several people in the 25D courses now, and they have even added 2 more courses to the curriculum (Forensics and Intrusion Analysis) to better reflect the 255S course, which is ARCYBER's intention. Essentially, the next 7 25D classes that 442nd kicks out are being assigned directly to the USACPB (US Army Cyber Protection Brigade), in an Army Cyber billet. The courses that follow these 7 will be carefully scrutinized, based on potential, and available slots at USACPB. VERY SOON the 35Q, 25D, 255S, etc. will all be realigned into a 17 Series Cyber Branch (either this September or October), in the mean time our ERBs reflect a fencing code to keep us assigned to Army Cyber billets. The MTOEs for BCTs have 25Ds, and they too will get 25Ds; can't say for sure when, but I am sure that it won't be till after ARCYBER mission req. are met.
Details: https://www.hrc.army.mil/Milper/14-195

I am on a CPT (Cyber Protection Team), and I have a Cyber Soldier who is a 35Q SPC, ever bit as capable as any 25D or 255S, but he is the exception, not the rule, until/if these SPCs prove they can hack-it. There is another program happening as well, where the existing 25B (SGTs and SSGs) in the USACPB are attending the 25D course (minus COMSEC) for the Y2 Identifier, which allows them to work in a 25D Cyber billet, and affords them the possibility of one day being awarded the 25D MOS, should they procure the req. COMSEC courses (while they are still req).
Details: https://www.hrc.army.mil/Milper/14-195

For SFCs and MSGs 25D applicants, time is running out, as the allowance for these ranks is only 1 yr. from the effective date of the MILPER MSG. Please review the MILPER MSG in it's entirety as some have applied, not realizing they did not meet the min requirements.
THIS MILPER MESSAGE ... EXPIRES NLT 31 JAN 15.
Details: https://www.hrc.army.mil/Milpe...aspx?MILPERID=14-085
https://www.hrc.army.mil/Milper/14-195 (augments above MILPER MSG)

@ALL

All I can say is keep your fingers crossed for the 3 SPCs that are in the course, and we at the USACPB will keep a boot firmly planted in their a$$e$. I will post the progress of the 3 SPCs as it becomes available. Everybody else keep reading those books!

While our mission is obviously the protection of DoD networks, etc. it doesn't hurt to mention that the courses you will take in the 25D course are directly applicable to a Masters Degree in Information Security Engineering with the SANS Technology Institute. Also University of Maryland recognizes a lot of the training you will take as College Credits. Do I really need to mention the 6-figure salaries you would easily apply for in the commercial sector? There is always someone looking to make a quick buck, well this course would not be for you if that was your intent, as you must successfully complete the entire course, and serve the required follow-on enlistment years in order to even be able to attend or finish. The training, if you haven't already figured out, is all commercial, and is the best in the world, therefore, it isn't cheap. if you tried to attain on your own, the level of knowledge and certifications that this course has to offer, you would easily pay over $50,000.00 out of pocket.

In addition to reading books on Cyber, it would also help you to enroll (it's free) in http://www.codecademy.com/tracks/python
..this will help prepare you for the Python course in the 25D course. But why Python? Python is used in numerous useful Linux Tools... it is well integrated in Kali Linux, and is the most easy programing language to learn ... http://www.amazon.com/Python-K...amming/dp/1593274076
Hey! If Kids can do it, so can you!

The new recruitment link and video are found here:

CAC'd: https://cpb.army.mil/
Public: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...28HXaU6cQrow&index=8

I am a firm believer that one should always utilize their COC and Career Counselor to the greatest extent possible, however, if you are not getting the answers you seek about reclassify to MOS 25D, or the MOS in general, you can personally msg. me and I will get you the answers you seek.
(Leave out any PII or mission data, full name is sufficient).

Good Luck!
Might be beating a dead horse with this one. But assuming that an interim TS is acquired, and packet is submitted to OCOS via career counselor, how long is the wait for initial acceptance, and instructions for taking ISST? and then acceptance to enroll in the MOS Producing course? My current career counselor is a bit frazzled at the whole "application" process, and how I should re-enlist for this MOS.
quote:
Originally posted by sunizo:
Might be beating a dead horse with this one. But assuming that an interim TS is acquired, and packet is submitted to OCOS via career counselor, how long is the wait for initial acceptance, and instructions for taking ISST? and then acceptance to enroll in the MOS Producing course? My current career counselor is a bit frazzled at the whole "application" process, and how I should re-enlist for this MOS.


Did you read the "expired" MILPER at https://www.hrc.army.mil/Milper/14-195

The qualifications and instructions are listed in the MILPER.

Also, 17C is being filled. http://www.army.mil/article/13...nges__opportunities/

Ask your career counselor about that too.

BTW, how long you been a 25N and why you want to switch?
Chief, I have read the milper, and the paperwork is being forwarded through my CoC. Just curious about timelines on when I'd get further instructions from OCOS. I've read into the 17 series, but 25D just seems to be more of a challenge, you know?
I have been a 25N for 2 years, following ALC (prior 25F), and while its been a great ride, the excitement has kinda died down. I thought networking was the way to go, and since taking some security courses, I really really enjoy it.
@ALL
I missed you guys! SO! The 17C MOS is not going to be a feeder MOS, at least in the future. Initially, the majority of the 25Ds and 35Q in the USACPB will automatically transition over to 17C on 1 Oct 2015. 35Qs must OPT OUT if they do not with to be transitioned. I do not know the entry level requirements for 17C, unless they are the same as 35Q or 25D, but I can tell you that if you have had ALC or SLC for either 25D or 35Q, you will NOT have to retake ALC or SLC (as applicable).

@sunizo
The process you have undergone so far is correct. You will just have to be patient. The ones who are taking 25D course now, will go one of two locations: Needs of the Army, or Green Platoon. In Green Platoon, you will be assessed for vacant slots in the CPB for which may be applicable to your particular talents. Persons identified as not meeting the talent requirements, might not get the opportunity to serve on a Cyber Protection Team. Like I said, the evaluations NEVER stop.

Not knocking the 35Qs, but it has been said that Big Army is going to significantly reduce the 35Q MOS across the Army. The job roles 35Qs currently fill will be filled by 17Cs. In terms of what, if any, additional training one will incur, I think it's safe to say that if you are a 25D, and you trans to 17C, you could undergo some form of JCAC at Corey Station (Pensacola, FL.) If you go 25D vs. 17C, you are opening yourself up to be stationed at echlons below corps (Division and down). It is a better bet to go 17C. 17C will be a Cyber Branch MOS, not Signal Branch.

I, along with my peers, start SLC for 25D next week(more SANS courses). I will let you know more as I speak with the staff there, about the 17C and 25D MOSs.
Green platoon, as in 160th? I'm a Campbell baby, so, if its something diff... I'd be cool to know. Not knocking it tho, I've come to realize there will be moments through out my career where I'll be no more than another private again for a few weeks hahaha
Green platoon as in Purgatory. You will be assessed using various techniques (all only require your brain) to determine if you will fill a vacant slot on a new CPT . . or if you are a Rockstar, maybe an established CPT (kinda fast-track ya). One of the techniques used to assess 'Green-Platooners' is the CART. The CART is not an exam parse, but it does assess where you are academically in your Cyber skills levels . . it's a 6 hr assessment Big Grin yay. The key function of Green Platoon is to determine where you would best serve the CPB while you are taking the baseline training for your intended role in the CPB. Not sure what metric they are using to assess for admittance to CPB Green Platoon from AIT (25D/17C Course), but I image it isn't going to be easy. BUT to answer your Q, yes it's a lot like Green Platoon for SOF units, only much more on the technical side.
Another good to get is the E4 ASI that can keep you at the CPTs and RCCs or get you there based on working in cyber-related functions for a year.

I have the OPOrder, so if you want it, PM me your EE address since its FOUO but here is a snippet

ASI “E4” will identify Soldiers (skill level 1-4) who have successfully served as part of Cyber Mission Force Operations. The ASI “E4” will be associated with any Military Occupational Specialty (MOS)
Hello All!

I just finished the 1st wk. of 25D SLC, and it's what you would expect from SLC: Height/Weight, APFT, D&C, ASU Inspection, Common Corp Training, and cutting the grass :-| Hoping next week (SANS Courses) shows more promise.

I did manage to find out that the 17C MOS AIT starts next year, and is MOS and rank unspecific; has two parts: part1 - JCAC (Pensacola FL.), part 2 - USCC Pipeline (it's fun, trust me; taken in Fort Gordon); so all in all about a year long Smiler

Unconfirmed Rumor: 25D/17C MOS transition and/or AIT will incur a 6 yr service obligation (current 25Ds grandfathered).

Also 17C SLC starts next year; first class June '16, for any interested.

Side Note: it turns out that even 25Ds are not immune to the draw down the Army is experiencing. A couple 25Ds (old-timers) have already been given notice, and I would guess are building their resumes for life after 'foxholes' and 'T-Rats' Don't worry about them though, they are being well taken care of, and we 25Ds are here to support them through their transition.

On another note: SGT and SSG who reclass to 25D are eligible for $4000.00 bonus :-D
details:
The conversion program is targeted at high-potential soldiers who are serving in overstrength and balanced specialties that could become squeezed as the Army gets smaller. Applicants for a job change must meet the reclassification requirements set by the MOS proponent. Requirements typically include achieving certain test scores, meeting medical and physical standards, and being eligible for a secret or top secret security clearance, depending on the MOS. Soldiers who receive a bonus incur a three-year service obligation; if they leave the MOS earlier, they will be subject to a pro-rated recoupment of the unearned bonus money.
Source: Army Times: 3 May 2015

Keep Reading those Books!
Hmm... is there any requirement for the new 17 series MOS? There's been rumor with the 35L field that those technically savy CI guys may be able to switch over. Unfortunately that would not be myself but I'm curious what actual requirements there are to go 17 series.
Chief,

no, the D's didn't hit their RCP, although they are both E-6, they were caught in an unofficial QSP, you know the one the Army said that 25Ds were exempt from. Well if you read the SFC promotion criteria milper msg, it states that your BASD has to be after June 1996, and that caught both of these 25Ds, as their BASDs were earlier.

Funny enough, this weeks Army Times addresses the issue, and promises to rectify the processes that led to this unfortunate circumstance.

B-U-T that's a day late and $100,000.00 short I'm afraid. Turns out these two are receiving 100K job offers, in the civilian sector, as I type this.

So like I said, don't worry about these guys they are going to be "O.K." :-)

@SGT Smitty - the basic requirements for 17C are the same as for 25D, same book, different cover. As far as the various MOSs the Army is looking at making available to laterally transfer to the 17C MOS, I don't have that info, as the Command is still trying to figure that out.

Think of it like this, 35Qs attended JCAC for their job roles; 17C will attend JCAC for their job roles; 35Q MOS billets will be significantly reduced across the Army in the coming years. 17C MOS billets will be increased in the coming years.

The Army recognizes an issue we at Cyber are all too familiar with: Signal wants to control 25Ds fates, and MI wants to control 35Qs fates, and frankly it's not their decision, and never was. These are CYBER jobs; they will be accountable to the CYBER Branch, and the CYBER Branch alone.
ok ok ..

you don't need CEH, in fact, you will get CEH IF you get accepted into the CPB. It wouldn't hurt your chances though.

As far as the ISST goes, if you can't pass the IT portion you should not even be touching a computer, as the questions are THAT easy. Here's a freebie:

What program do you use to open a .xls file?

IF you had to GOOGLE the answer, you are not ready!

The requirements are the same as they have been, and if you didn't make the cut, @sunizo, it could be for any one of a number of different reasons. That doesn't mean everyone will get cut.

Having either Net+ or Sec+ tells the people vetting your packet that you not only understand the material, but that you also consider it serious business.

This isn't a job, not really. It's a passion, and it has to be treated as such. If you are not the person on the weekends reading IT books, and 'breaking something just to fix it', then you probably are not the person they are looking for. Think of it like this, the NSA hires 'not very many' people 'we'll say once a year' to perform a specific role, that 'not very many' can comprehend, let alone, perform. The Army Cyber BDE seams to have modeled it's recruiting policies based on those same principles.

This is not a typical Army profession, and it will be difficult to get into to, but then the rewards are so great for achieving this level of 'we'll say awesomeness' that it isn't for everyone.

If your friends don't call you a nerd/geek/etc. then maybe you're not ready yet.

The BEAR program is gone now, and I have no idea how it's going to affect CYBER as a whole, but I'm certain that those who ARE worthy of making it to this level, will make it.

@sunizo, you're not helping your case, when you type like you are (a lot of typos). it shows people that you don't really care how you are perceived by others, professionally. I assume 2tN was supposed to be 25N.

I worked in at least 2 S-6s, and I assisted the G-6 on occasion, and I had to assess people even then for roles of great responsibility, and I can tell you that only 1 in 20 ever got the opportunity to serve the command at that level. That doesn't mean that you don't have what it takes, but maybe the perception displayed in your packet suggested as much.

Like I said a couple years ago, we are not just looking for PT studs, or Uber G33ks, but the total package; that includes being able to address Generals on the 'short-comings' of their network security posture, etc.

My suggestion for anyone interested in pursing this field, is to read my older posts thoughtfully, and follow the advice. There is no shortcut for this, so any time spent looking for one, is wasted.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a GCCC test to study for. PM me for more specific advise.

Happy Memorial Day @ALL
@CYBER Trail Blazer and WiseChief:
So the new milper message came out declaring 17C is open for reclassification applications. The requirements are fairly easy to meet and I know I meet all of the requirements.

However when I looked at the example packet I noticed that there was a Cyber survey. Most of the questions I will have to answer with "none" as I have almost no experience with cyber. Do you think it is worth putting in a packet as I meet all HRC requirements or having almost no prior knowledge of cyber puts me too far behind the power curve?
quote:
Originally posted by SGT Smitty:
@CYBER Trail Blazer and WiseChief:
So the new milper message came out declaring 17C is open for reclassification applications. The requirements are fairly easy to meet and I know I meet all of the requirements.

However when I looked at the example packet I noticed that there was a Cyber survey. Most of the questions I will have to answer with "none" as I have almost no experience with cyber. Do you think it is worth putting in a packet as I meet all HRC requirements or having almost no prior knowledge of cyber puts me too far behind the power curve?


SGT,

I do not know what MOS you have but if you are 25 series, have you worked in any form of information assurance (IA) now called Cyber Security Division (CSD)?

Have you worked with HBSS and deployed/tweaked it on end hosts?

Have you ever executed Retina or ACAS scans?

Performed any form of IT security on a computer?

Do you have at least a Security+ certification?

Do you understand the Linux OS?

Have you ever downloaded open source tools such as SIFT and SiLK and played with it at home? lol.

Stuff like that.

Also, you have nothing to lose by submitting your packet. Good luck.
Well I am a 35L and I have 0 experience with IT. I have some experience with DOMEX and an interest in MUDs (telnet based online games). I have played with scripting with MUD clients but that's about as far as my programming and network experience goes. So I have really no knowledge or certification.

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