51C Information

Prerequisites to apply for MOS 51C:

(a) For (Active Component) SGT(P) through SFC with less than 10 years of Active Federal Service in any Career Management Field at the time of submission for reclassification. This is waiverable up to 13 years time in service.

Available at: http://asc.army.mil/career/pro...s/nco/nco_prereq.cfm

As far as a civilian job, there is a huge amount of 1102 (GS series) contracting jobs available. You will however be required to have a Bachelor's degree with at least 24 hours in a business related field.

Depending on what agency you work for will impact on how much you interact with Soldiers.
Please think about this before you do it. If you enjoy being a leader this is not for you. I will grant that it is good for some, but those NCO's that love to train and lead Soldiers should back away from this. Only look at this if you are looking strictly at your civilian life after the Army.
That seems a bit harsh. Granted, yes you will not have day to day contact with typical Soldiers as in a line unit, but I'd be hard pressed to find a job where you can impact a greater number of Soldiers and improve their quality of life, living conditions, and work environment.

You may not train Soldiers in the traditional sense of CTT or SMCT tasks, but you will be responsible for training Soldiers in other tasks to ensure fiscal responsibility.

But you are right, that this job is not for everyone, which I have tried to convey over the past few months.
It may be harsh, but it is true. You can't count out that there will be little to no interaction wth Soldiers and some of us actually work for civilians instead of Army personnel. There is almost NO mentoring. Just about everyone I meet only talks about their civilian life after the Army.
51C,


Are they still lookiing for 51C's? A while back I was talking to you about it and I had everything but the secret Clearance.. Just found out today from my brigade S-2 that my clearance has been granted. So, I should be good to go. I have 8 years time in service, I am a SSG, I have 78 hours towards my Bachelors degree in Logistics, and now the clearance. I also have a 119 GT... I think thats everything right?
quote:
Originally posted by constant confusion:
It may be harsh, but it is true. You can't count out that there will be little to no interaction wth Soldiers and some of us actually work for civilians instead of Army personnel. There is almost NO mentoring. Just about everyone I meet only talks about their civilian life after the Army.


In your opinion, has being rated by a civilian affected your career in a positive/negative way? I will be going to school soon to switch my MOS to 51C and I was wondering if working for a civilian would hamper my future promotions. I dont mind working for civilian who served in the Army, has retired and is now civilian. I do worry about the civilians who never served in the Army and possibly ruin future promotion by writing substandard NCOERs. Also, what other things should one consider before switching to 51C?
quote:
Originally posted by eesco11:
quote:
Originally posted by constant confusion:
It may be harsh, but it is true. You can't count out that there will be little to no interaction wth Soldiers and some of us actually work for civilians instead of Army personnel. There is almost NO mentoring. Just about everyone I meet only talks about their civilian life after the Army.


In your opinion, has being rated by a civilian affected your career in a positive/negative way? I will be going to school soon to switch my MOS to 51C and I was wondering if working for a civilian would hamper my future promotions. I dont mind working for civilian who served in the Army, has retired and is now civilian. I do worry about the civilians who never served in the Army and possibly ruin future promotion by writing substandard NCOERs. Also, what other things should one consider before switching to 51C?


I have yet to see someone get rated by a civilian. I do however, and I think this is what constant confusion is referring to, see people working for civilians. There is a training program that is being put in place that puts the burden of our training program on the civilian contracting officers. As far as I am aware, there is a standard rating chain in place. For example, I am rated by my team OIC (a LTC), senior rated by our BN CDR (LTC) and my reviewer is the BDR CDR (COL). The SSG on my team is rated by me (SFC), senior rated by the team OIC (LTC), and reviewed by the BN CDR (LTC). Unless a team isn't full, this seems to be the standard rating chain. I have seen individual team members get rated directly by the BN CDR in cases where the team isn't fulled manned. When you are deployed (OIF/OEF) typically you will eb rated by the RCC Chief.

As constant has said, I would say ensure this is something you really want to do. You will either do really well with it, or will hate it. It is as far as getting out of the Army that you can go. You will have more mandatory training than any other job I can think of. Extended hours at the end of the fiscal year, and you can probably count on being TDY 3-4 months out of the year that you aren't deployed.
51C, thanks for clearing that up. I currently work with civilians and its not that bad. As far as the training, TDY and extended hours, it sounds like nothing to really worry about. Overall, I hear nothing but great comments about the MOS and everyone I have met that is in the MOS loves it. Thanks for the info.
I hate to hurt your feelings 51C but I AM rated by a civilian, and I almost cried when I saw it. And if you are asking yes I hate it because this is not being run like a militay organization. Had I known that this could happen I would NEVER have done it. And like it or not I am not alone, most of us have to deal with civilian raters here and it seems like no one cares. I did not mind extended hours for EOY, but I don't like that I am expected to do more and then have my NCOER messed up by someone who doesn't even know what AR covers the evaluation. All I am looking forward to now is ETS...sad that it has to be this way, I am one of the few that really love the Army.
quote:
Originally posted by eesco11:
51C, thanks for clearing that up. I currently work with civilians and its not that bad. As far as the training, TDY and extended hours, it sounds like nothing to really worry about. Overall, I hear nothing but great comments about the MOS and everyone I have met that is in the MOS loves it. Thanks for the info.



you will be expected to recruit other NCO's to this MOS...I am an outcast in my unit because I requested to go back to my previous MOS...I don't love it, and if they were honest about it I would never have requested it. I was considered elite, now I have to ETS because there are no other choices for me. of course ppl will say they LOVE it, we are supposd to be selling other NCOs on this.
constant confusion, I would think you could go OCS with all the civilian education that is required. Maybe instead of ETS, this could be an option. Also, do you work in a TDA unit or a MTOE. Im trying to figure out the structure on how it is a civilian is rating you.
quote:
Originally posted by eesco11:
constant confusion, I would think you could go OCS with all the civilian education that is required. Maybe instead of ETS, this could be an option. Also, do you work in a TDA unit or a MTOE. Im trying to figure out the structure on how it is a civilian is rating you.


I am in an MTOE unit, but we are 80% civilian. It is a strange situation, but there is nothing I can do about it. I am too old for OCS so that is not an option. Don't get me wrong now, the work done by 51C NCOs is important, but I dont like the way this is structured/sold to other NCOs. I have no 1SG/CSM to go to for mentorship and there is very little that looks like Army to me. It may be just this unit too, I don't know, but it was a bad introduction to this MOS. Again, good luck to you because this is someday going to be VERY benefitial to Soldiers, just because I don't like the structure doesn't mean that you won't.
quote:
Originally posted by KingofMinot2:
can you guy's go needs of the army or back to your old mos if you don't do well in this field?

so it won't be no more supervising soldiers?

do you do morning pt? like what is an average garrison duty day, and deployed duty day.


Yes I do morning PT, we are very light on military so we are expected to conduct it on our own, but please believe that we do also get tested and go to the range to qualfy (M9) so that is still the same. Duty day starts at 0830 or 0900 and goes to no earler than 1630 or until the work is done. I pulled a tougher schedue for EoY but it is not horrible. Deployments depend on the team and can be 18hour days. So yeah no Soldiers, but not really an easy run. As for going back to my old MOS the answer I got was no.

Like I say, I am still fairly new to this MOS and am finishing up my first year in this assignment so I don't want to dissuade anyone from doing this, but make sure you look into it first and make sure it is what you want.
@ constant confusion. Big Sarge I am sorry to hear that you have had such a bad experience with the MOS 51C. I am a 42A and I just dropped my packet to go 51C and I noticed how you say you where jerked on your NCOER. As an NCO you should have sat down with your Rater and talked him through how an NCOER is done and how it is supposed to look. It seems to me that you settled for what was writtin. Just because you don't have Soldiers does not mean you can't lead or train. Train up the civilians you work for on how military evaluations should read. Especially yours, I currently have a Navy Chief that's my rater here in NATO and I had to do the same thing. He was very understanding and I did it in a respectful manner. I wish you the best of luck in the future, and with you getting out I am pretty sure you are about to become one of the civilians you speak of. Lets hope that the experiences you have had on active duty will translate into something positive when you have a Soldier work for you.
@ 51C. I would like to thank your for doing this post. I must say that this secured my decision in dropping a packet for 51C. You have put out a lot of good information in regards to this new MOS and I have been going back and forth for the past couple of months on what I wanted to do. I submitted my packet yesterday and I hope everything goes well with that. I have spoke to a couple of 51Cs and they have been very helpful as well. Again, thanks for all of the info and I hope that we will have the opportunity to meet in the future.
quote:
Originally posted by AdminGuy:
@ constant confusion. Big Sarge I am sorry to hear that you have had such a bad experience with the MOS 51C. I am a 42A and I just dropped my packet to go 51C and I noticed how you say you where jerked on your NCOER. As an NCO you should have sat down with your Rater and talked him through how an NCOER is done and how it is supposed to look. It seems to me that you settled for what was writtin. Just because you don't have Soldiers does not mean you can't lead or train. Train up the civilians you work for on how military evaluations should read. Especially yours, I currently have a Navy Chief that's my rater here in NATO and I had to do the same thing. He was very understanding and I did it in a respectful manner. I wish you the best of luck in the future, and with you getting out I am pretty sure you are about to become one of the civilians you speak of. Lets hope that the experiences you have had on active duty will translate into something positive when you have a Soldier work for you.


No admin guy I didn't settle, I am being rated by someone at another installation. You are not in my situation so please try not to pass judgement. I made sure the NCO that works with me/junior to me had an excellent NCOER, I am currently in the midst of quite a battle that has put me in some trouble, but that is my lookout. Because I would not settle for the status quo I am a butthead. As for my life in the civilian sector it will have NOTHING to do with contracting, nor would I ever be like any of these civilians that I am working with. I would never cast doubt on any ones ability to be a NCO, but you certainly have cast it on mine because I stated a real and true fact about this organization. For the record my battle buddy just left GOMO as a 42 so I got all the "admin" train up I could ever ask for.

YOU LEAD FROM THE FRONT!
quote:
Originally posted by AdminGuy:
@ constant confusion. Big Sarge I am sorry to hear that you have had such a bad experience with the MOS 51C. I am a 42A and I just dropped my packet to go 51C and I noticed how you say you where jerked on your NCOER. As an NCO you should have sat down with your Rater and talked him through how an NCOER is done and how it is supposed to look. It seems to me that you settled for what was writtin. Just because you don't have Soldiers does not mean you can't lead or train. Train up the civilians you work for on how military evaluations should read. Especially yours, I currently have a Navy Chief that's my rater here in NATO and I had to do the same thing. He was very understanding and I did it in a respectful manner. I wish you the best of luck in the future, and with you getting out I am pretty sure you are about to become one of the civilians you speak of. Lets hope that the experiences you have had on active duty will translate into something positive when you have a Soldier work for you.


Oh yea just to go one further I never blamed any of this on the MOS and have said before that it could be that because this is my first assignment in this MOS I don't have the full picture. I know it is going to be really nice for you to drop your P and be a real SSG, don't be rude it is so unbecomeing.

YOU LEAD FROM THE FRONT!
constant confusion, I just want to thank you for sharing your experience with us. As I was on my quest to research the MOS all I read was positive comments. As you know, there is another side to everything. I wasnt trying to expose anything, but I did want to know what to be aware of or what can potentially happen. By you sharing your experience you have opened my eyes to some possibilities. It didnt turn me away from going through with my packet but it did help me to make a more sound decision and made me aware of what to look out for in the event I may be faced with a similar situation as yours. Thanks again for sharing.
quote:
Originally posted by eesco11:
constant confusion, I just want to thank you for sharing your experience with us. As I was on my quest to research the MOS all I read was positive comments. As you know, there is another side to everything. I wasnt trying to expose anything, but I did want to know what to be aware of or what can potentially happen. By you sharing your experience you have opened my eyes to some possibilities. It didnt turn me away from going through with my packet but it did help me to make a more sound decision and made me aware of what to look out for in the event I may be faced with a similar situation as yours. Thanks again for sharing.


In reality that is all I wanted to do. I think that this MOS can be a great asset to the Army, but NCOs should have some idea of what "can" happen. I would never want to dissuade anyone from doing this, but I want to be honest and open about my experience. Good luck to you and I hope you really love it, I hope that perhaps my next assignment really makes me love it! Best of luck to you, and good luck with AABC, that class is no joke but if you put your mind to it you will do great!

YOU LEAD FROM THE FRONT!
@ Contstant Confusion. Wow, I apologize if I came off to you the wrong way. I was just giving you my opinion on what I read. If it was wrong that's fine. But for you to act as if I was attacking you seems to be a little childish. Thought this was a message board for people to share information. Clearly I was wrong. I wish you nothing but success in the future. BTW my signature was not directed towards you so there was no need for you to make up one of your own. SMH....but it clearly shows how much of a leader you are.
quote:
Originally posted by AdminGuy:
@ Contstant Confusion. Wow, I apologize if I came off to you the wrong way. I was just giving you my opinion on what I read. If it was wrong that's fine. But for you to act as if I was attacking you seems to be a little childish. Thought this was a message board for people to share information. Clearly I was wrong. I wish you nothing but success in the future. BTW my signature was not directed towards you so there was no need for you to make up one of your own. SMH....but it clearly shows how much of a leader you are.


No I felt that you were mocking me, I don't make up signatures for others and if you don't know the source of the quote I really can't help you (look into SAMC). What I intended is not what you interpreted and that is frequent amongst admin people. Of course I wish all other NCO's to feel free to participate in any open discussion but just so you know Sarge is the scum beneath mold and I find it offensive to be called that. I worked my ass off to be a SSG in a field that did not want females and came over to 51C to make an impact on ensuring that Soldiers get the services and equipment that they needed only to find that I was gettin screwed. Then you insinuated that because I am not a 42 I don't know regulation on NCOERs. Seriously condescending! So if your poor little fragile feelings got hurt because I took a personal affront to your comments..so sorry but I have always been proud to commit to my convictions. Coincidentally if you allow comments on a message board to weigh in as consideration as to what type of leader a person is, you might want to consider some of your other asinine comments before you judge mine. I am here to provide information to other NCOs and that is what I have done.. If what I say offends you…GO ORDINANCE


YOU LEAD FROM THE FRONT!
Constant Confusion,

If its not too personal, where are you stationed? Also, could you be stationed anywhere? I'm desperately trying to get ANYWHERE in Europe... I'm pretty much done with my packet... I just need recommendation letter from my LTC... Thanks in advance..

SSG Patterson
quote:
Originally posted by slim26:
Constant Confusion,

If its not too personal, where are you stationed? Also, could you be stationed anywhere? I'm desperately trying to get ANYWHERE in Europe... I'm pretty much done with my packet... I just need recommendation letter from my LTC... Thanks in advance..

SSG Patterson


It’s a small world, a small Army, and an even smaller CMF, I am OCONUS right now, and headed back to the States in a few months to my next assignment and I am not shy about my attitude, so OCONUS is as far as I am willing to go with that.
I really do think that this MOS can be important, but I also feel like there is a lot of complacency amongst the NCOs over here. The great hope for me is to leave this place and move on to the next assignment and hope that there I am not getting hamstrung by people that are interested in pleasing other civilians. That being said, I hope that you get your letter and I hope someone’s negative experience gives you a warning of what to look out for and even a work around for it. Depending on your situation you can go anywhere, part of the reason that this is such an awesome career field is that we can be assigned all over the world and we are a needed asset. I wish you all the luck in the world!
quote:
Originally posted by SKY_SHARK:
I'm submitting my packet this week.

If accepted, when will I find out my new duty assignment?


Depends on what school you go to. Both my battle buddy and I went to school en route so we knew where we were going before we went to school. Good luck, it's not a bad job and from what I understand I am in a strange/singular situation so I will keep my fingers crossed for you. Our Branch is AWESOME and really does a great job of taking care of us. That is one of the perks of this MOS.
quote:
Originally posted by constant confusion:
quote:
Originally posted by SKY_SHARK:
I'm submitting my packet this week.

If accepted, when will I find out my new duty assignment?


Depends on what school you go to. Both my battle buddy and I went to school en route so we knew where we were going before we went to school. Good luck, it's not a bad job and from what I understand I am in a strange/singular situation so I will keep my fingers crossed for you. Our Branch is AWESOME and really does a great job of taking care of us. That is one of the perks of this MOS.


Ah, I'm taking it you went through MRAC? If so, very lucky, I would have loved to go through that school.
quote:
Originally posted by AdminGuy:
I submitted my packet at the beginning of December and I have not heard anything as of yet. How long does it usually take before I will hear something back? Is there anyone I could call to check the status of my packet?


Typically now they are aiming for 4-6 weeks for notification is what I was last told/saw in a brief. I'd contact your career counselor first as they should get first notification if your reclass packet is denied. Failing that, you can get the contact info for the branch manager from the proponent webpage.
quote:
Originally posted by SKY_SHARK:
I'm submitting my packet this week.

If accepted, when will I find out my new duty assignment?



My packet was accepted in June, I got a school date for February the following week and didn't find out my new duty assignment until around mid-November... So if you get accepted and go to school in a TDY Enroute status you will definitely know your follow on assignment before you leave for school
quote:
Originally posted by Corvette1140:
What are the main reasons that a packet is denied?


If I had to take a guess, I would say that packets that aren't selected don't meet the minimum qualifications as stated on the website. Proponent is getting a lot more picky with applications.
quote:
Originally posted by 51C:
quote:
Originally posted by constant confusion:
quote:
Originally posted by SKY_SHARK:
I'm submitting my packet this week.

If accepted, when will I find out my new duty assignment?


Depends on what school you go to. Both my battle buddy and I went to school en route so we knew where we were going before we went to school. Good luck, it's not a bad job and from what I understand I am in a strange/singular situation so I will keep my fingers crossed for you. Our Branch is AWESOME and really does a great job of taking care of us. That is one of the perks of this MOS.


Ah, I'm taking it you went through MRAC? If so, very lucky, I would have loved to go through that school.


My battle did MRAC...I went to AABC in Huntsville, that course was rough, but I am glad I did it, lots of stuff that is good to know.
quote:
Originally posted by AdminGuy:
@ 51C thanks for the info. It is has been about 4-5 weeks but I know with the holidays the time might have been pushed back. I will get with my CC to see what he says.


It took about 3 months for mine to go through. I would not worry too much about it just yet, but stay on the CC like 51C said because that is how I found out.
quote:
Originally posted by constant confusion:
quote:
Originally posted by 51C:
quote:
Originally posted by constant confusion:
quote:
Originally posted by SKY_SHARK:
I'm submitting my packet this week.

If accepted, when will I find out my new duty assignment?


Depends on what school you go to. Both my battle buddy and I went to school en route so we knew where we were going before we went to school. Good luck, it's not a bad job and from what I understand I am in a strange/singular situation so I will keep my fingers crossed for you. Our Branch is AWESOME and really does a great job of taking care of us. That is one of the perks of this MOS.


Ah, I'm taking it you went through MRAC? If so, very lucky, I would have loved to go through that school.


My battle did MRAC...I went to AABC in Huntsville, that course was rough, but I am glad I did it, lots of stuff that is good to know.


How rough is rough? I'm going to the course in Huntsville next month.

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