AIT Platoon Sergeant Duty

Greetings everyone, I've been DA Selected to go be a AIT Platoon Sergeant at Ft. Bliss, I know this is a new thing, and i've been asking around and I can't seem to get any good answers. Can anyone tell me please, I know HRC did a DS background check on me and I passed. Do I have to go to DS school for this? Is there an extra pay for doing this duty? Any kind of answer would be a lot of help so atleast I now what to expect. Thanks in advance.

SSG B
Original Post
SSG B, from what I have been about the Platoon Sergeant for AIT, there is no extra pay like the Drill Sergeant Duty. Similar in job yes in a way, AIT however unless it is OSUT (sp) is not very strict, your there to mentor and mold from what I have been told. Now the Platoon Sergeant in AIT thing is new so I could be getting my info from leaders that do not know for sure. I was DA selected for Drill Sergeant Duty... Frowner it's ok though not like I had a life anyway Smiler
The way it is working here at Ft Gordon is the Platoon SGTs have in essence taken the place of the senior drill sergeants. AIT instructors now are squad leaders which are like drill sergeants. They are the ones that wake them up in the morning and do PT with them. You do not go to drill sergeant school and you do not get special duty pay for either position either. This was a way for the Army to save money, (have NCOs doing the same job without sending them to school for it or paying them special duty pay). The platoon sergeants here put in long hours though.
The idea behind the implementation of the AIT Platoon Sergeant as opposed to the Drill Sergeant is to provide Soldiers with the ability to follow orders given by an NCO wearing a beret just as they would if the orders were given by a Drill Sergeant. That’s how it was explained to me by an upper echelon TRADOC CSM. Take it as you will.

I believe it is because AIT Drill Sergeant duty was much easier than BCT or OSUT duty because of the difference in work hours and the fact that the Soldiers have been trained in basic Soldiering tasks and values. Certain members of TRADOC noticed this and removed all of the AIT DS’s from the equation. Thereby saving the Army a lot of money on incentive pay, and a lot of time/money training DS’s to do a job that a high speed SFC can do. You will not have to attend Drill Sergeant School. It will be a challenging and rewarding job as you will be given a chance to mold the future leaders of our great Army on a grand scale.
I would like to thank everyone for their response, it kinda gave me some idea of what to expect. Here is the thing, like kyl3's question..what is the rank structure of the AIT platoons? I can't be a squad leader because these are instructor positions too. I am a logistician not an air defense artillery soldier. On the aspects of leadership and basic soldier skill mentoring the MOS should not matter but if squad leaders are also instructors what slot am I going to hold? I'm kinda excited but at the same time weary because I am a transporter and i'm stepping into the Air Defense Artillery world.
The rank structure is quite simple. If you have been selected to be an AIT PSG then you will simply do that job. THe instructors on the "Platform" are the ones that are your squad leaders. They can be either SGT/E-5 or SSG/E-6. Just remember that you are the one that was selected to be the PSG. You will work your a$$ of if you don't have good battle buddies. Take it from I just came off the trail of a grueling 3 years!!! Hope this helps.
SFC Rob pretty much nailed it.

I've been serving as an AIT platoon sergeant for nearly nine months now. DA Selected.

Typically your instructors will serve as your squad leaders and you of course are the platoon sergeant. You'll have your 1SG as well.
I have noticed that each command manages the scenario a bit differently depending on location etc. There is also an AIT Platoon Sergeant course that you should attend. I attended at Fort Jackson, but from what I understand the course is also now offered at Fort Lee and Aberdeen Proving Grounds.

The Army's official reason for removing Drill Sergeants from the AIT environment was in an attempt to replicate the operational Army. Sounds great on a Powerpoint slide, but I truely believe they also saw the benefit in not training Drill Sergeants and paying them Special Duty Assignment pay.

At my duty location we as Platoon Sergeants are expected for the most part to perform all the same duties and functions that the Drill Sergeants performed (with extra pay). As we all know Platoon Sergeants do not receive SDAP. I've had CSM's tell me that I shouldn't expect any SDAP because my job here in the IET environment is no different than serving as a Platoon Sergeant in the Operational Army. That's complete and total bullshit (but typical in today's Army). I've served several years as a Platoon Sergeant in the operational Army and I don't recall working 14 hour days typically 6, sometimes 7 days a week out in the Operational Army as a Platoon Sergeant. Before anyone says it, yes I could be in Iraq. You're 100% correct, I've been there a few times already and have no problem going back. Please save that lecture for someone else.

Anyway ultimately you should make your form your own impressions of the program and a lot of that will be dicatated by your command and their policies.

Good luck out there.
quote:
Originally posted by SFC Slaughter:
I truely believe they also saw the benefit in not training Drill Sergeants and paying them Special Duty Assignment pay.


+1

Plus they have mroe bodies to send downrange- they can use less PSGs than DS, since 'the squad leaders can take up the slack.'
SFC Rob hit everything on the nail. NO DRILL PAY, NOT BADGE, MORE HOURS( AVERAGE 14-18 HOURS A DAY 6 DAYS A WEEK) I HAVE ALSO HEARD THAT PHRASE " AS A PSG IN OPERATION ARMY YOU DON'T GET EXTRA PAY" BUT AS FOR ME; AS A PSG AND MCS IN A CAV SQD AND BCT IN 82 ABN...I ALSO HAD MIDDLE MANAGEMENT, IN OTHER WORDS I HAD AT LEAST AT LEAST 7-10 SGT'S AND 4 TO 5 SSG THAT WORKED FOR ME WITH A PLATOON OF 50, HERE I HAVE THREE STAFF SGT FOR A PLATOON OF 112. HERE YOUR SQUAD LEADERS ARE SSG INSTRUCTORS THAT WORK AND ARE RATED BY THE SCHOOL HOUSE. YOUR SOLDIERS AIT STUDENTS SERVE AS STUDENT TEAM LEADERS , STUDENT CLASS LEADERS AND STUDENT PLATOON SGT'S I WOULD TAKE OPERATION ARMY AND DEPLOYMENT ANYDAY...AS MY WIFE AND KIDS SAY, AFTER BEING DEPLOYED 16 MONTHS AND THEN 90 DAYS HOME REPORTING HERE, DAD WE ALMOST LESS OF YOU HERE THEN WHEN YOU WERE GONE. TAKE WHAT YOU WILL, 19 YEARS COMPLETED......WELL SEE WHAT HAPPENS
Now, does this qualify as one of those 'special duties' that you must do once in your career? Meaning, as far as having to at least do recruiter, drill sergeant or career counselor? And can you volunteer for this?
As far as I'm concerned (and if I ever do this, I could be sticking my foot preemptively in my mouth), this assignment would work for me. I don't want to do recruiter and I can't do Drill Sergeant (even though I wouldn't mind) because I have a P2 profile.
Well I have been working as an AIT Instructor with the additional duty of Squad Leader at Fort Gordon for just over a year now. Let me tell you, it is terrible. We work 14-16 hour days typically. We have memorandums from our CSM stating the different duties and responsibilities of AIT PSG's and AIT Squad leaders. They all make sense. The problem is that no one follows that direction. What is supposed to happen is that the PSG's whos only job is to handle the soldiers are supposed to be primarily responsible for the day to day duties such as running PT and counseling them for Phase-Ups. The Squad Leaders who already have an all day job teaching their respective MOS on the platform end up carrying all this on their shoulders instead of the PSG's. We typically show up earlier than they do and leave later. I am not saying that the PSG's are not doing long hours and hard work, but it is not running the way it should. TRADOC says that the squad leaders are there to assist the PSG when they need it, not to actually run a squad as they would in a normal unit. Problem is that some of our AIT "Squads" are larger than normal platoons. And some of the companies are larger in size than a BN. Having 18 NCO's to run a larger than BN size element is ridiculous. Most of us would rather be deployed again just to get out of the duty. And even though we are doing what the PSG's are supposed to be doing, they always try to make us feel like $&*t bags by telling us, "You are a NonCommissioned Officer. Suck it up." I would love to have all day to spend with the privates being able to devote all my attention to making them into better soldiers unfortunately us Instructors are not afforded that luxury, but the PSG's are and they aren't doing it.
Maybe its that way for your unit....but I disagree with the comments made from the Fort Gordon Squad Leaders... I am an AIT PSG here at Gordon and we do PULL Duties, We Are Here every Sunday, We are Here until 2000 or Later!, and rotate out for Saturdays! I know our Squad Leaders march them to dinner chow, drop them off, and then run to their cars at 1700. Most complain about pulling duties on the weekends...heck half of you arent even on the platform! So please speak on behalf of your units and NOT for the rest of Fort Gordon!
I have read the comments posted. I do agree that this isn't what we thought we were getting into. I am a Squad Leader at Fort Lee, Virginia. Like previously mentioned the duty changes with the Command. Long Hours are a given, and very little guidance. I too have heard the words" Your an NCO, suck it up. We are all soldiers. I agree the Army did this to save money while they spend uncontrolably for other things. The squad Leader replaced the Drill Sergeant, I don't know as of yet why we have Plattoon Sergeants. We beat them to work and leave with them. We all do pull duty be it CQ or Duty NCO for the day. this does not in any way resemble the operational Army because we shield the IET soldier and do everything for them then when they should be released they are kept and recycled. Nothing has changed since the Drill Sergeants have left in regards to how the soldiers react. We use a Drill Sergeant mentality when dealing with the soldiers, its the only way we can get the respect and motivation to get the response we need to complete the misions. We need to get back to Drill Sergeants and let AIT go back to the way it was.
There's ALWAYS going to be a Platoon SGT vs Squad Leader debate going on.

The biggest issue I have with the whole system is that 99% of the PSGs have NOT taught. On the other hand, the SL's HAVE done the duties the PSGs are resposible for.
---This means the SL SOMEWHAT understands what the PSGs do, but the PSG doesn't understand what it's like to wake up and be to formation at 0445, do PT 0530-0630, then TEACH from 0830 until 1600ish, with an hour for lunch. THEN do the silly Company crap.

Any amount of Quality teaching really drains the brain. The lesson plans are all garbage, to meet the Army "standards"- so to involve the students and actually help motivate and teach them, you have to be really engaged.

WHEN and IF I'm able to slip over to the Company during lunch to take care of squad stuff, there's ALWAYS 2+ PSGs smoking and joking. (And we only have 5-6 in our Company!!!)

-Yes it's draining to be trying to make sure the Soldiers are all where they're supposed to be, handling discipline, get the barracks and area somewhat clean, but I don't think it' as rough as spending all day with the Soldiers, and in my Case, this Sunday with them too.

(Our PSGs are guaranteed at least 2 weekends off per month now, since the SLs are doing duty from Saturday 0600 to Sunday 1800. We also did ALL of Memorial day weekend. So how many days are people really working?)
After re-visiting this topic, I think I should update the current situation. Apparently, the Army intends to make this plan work at least for the time being. In all fairness, the local Command is trying to make the best of a bad situation they were handed. The Battalion CDR and CSM, despite some severe restrictions, still manage to implement changes that make a significant impact on quality of life for everyone in the Battalion. Things are tenfold better than they were just six weeks ago. It's hard to believe it's the same place!

I think they've struck on an equitable balance of duties now and it may even improve. As of next week, the Squad Leaders will only pull company CQ and assist with PT. I can't vouch for the Platoon Sergeants because I haven't had to spend any time around the barracks in a month, but apparently they have more time to deal with the students. Something's working because when I inspected the students Tuesday, there was only one gig out of 35 Soldiers (and it was a schoolhouse SOP thing a PS wouldn't know to look for) and almost all Soldiers had a senior phase badge, which used to be rare.

I, personally, have had a lot of time to catch up on instructor issues and additional duties that got pushed to the back burner. In the last month, I've had a lot of time to work on instructor development and to iron out some nagging equipment issues that should make life better for everyone in the schoolhouse. I've seen a couple of the other instructors trying to make positive changes as well. I know for the first time in a long time, I actually look forward to going to work.
Gspell, I have alot of questions for you. I am currently deployed and have came down on assignment for Fort Gordon. I am an E5P 94L. the problem I have here is I would have to reup to take the assignment. I am not at the point in my career where if I dont reup it would be a tramatic event or anything. But I have been constantly deployed and I really need a straight up honest opinion of what life is like there. I am married with 2 children. If you would like to email me some good info it would be greatly appreciated. Please be blunt with me. After reading your posts it makes me question alot.

sdeedrick@yahoo.com
quote:
Originally posted by GoneCivilian:
Could someone please clarify whether a person who is DA select for AIT platoon Sgt school is stationed to be a Platoon SGT at the place they attend the school or if they are placed based upon their MOS.


The "school" is a few week course.
All of the AIT Plt Sgts here at Ft Gordon are 25 or 94 series. I DOUBT they put 25 and 94 series Plt Sgts anywhere else.

Meaning: I think you go to where YOUR MOS is taught..

That said, we have 25Q in the company that 25P are in, also 25S or 25P are Plt Sgts for the 25Q company.
Great discussion.
Let me shed some light on this duty based on my experiences. I was DA selected for this duty 2 years ago and was one of the first group of new Plt SGT's to come in and replace the Drill Sergeants. I was lucky when I got selected to have 17 years and some change time in service. My plans at that point in time were to retire at 20 years. I was not happy at all to be selected for such a demanding duty so late in my career but like a good NCO I packed up my family and PCS'ed. Ironically within my first month on duty our branch managers came down and gave us a briefing on the program. We were told that the AIT PSG duty was a mandatory 2 year duty and then we were finished. My question to them was that I would have 19 years 4 months TIS when my tour was done and what did I need to do in order to not be placed on assignment so that I could retire. I was told to ensure that I communicated my intent to retire to my branch manager before my tour of duty was up. Roger, got it.
Nearly 9 months out from coming off the trail I started emailing my branch manager to ensure that I wasn't placed on assignment. Once again the beginning of August I emailed my branch manager to ensure she was aware of my intentions. At the same time I began to process my request for retirement. Of course with anything in the Army I had to go through miles of red tape locally before it "met their standards". Much to my surprise the 1st of September I come down on assignment. WOW?!?

I immediatedly called my branch manager and of course she denied ever talking to me. All the while I'm thinking, no problem I have the email to prove that I communicated my intentions. Long story short after begging and pleading with everyone from my Branch manager team lead all the way up to my Brigade CSM I managed to get the assignment deleted.
Here's where it get's good. I will have completed my 2 years the end of Oct 09. Now after doing this job for 2 years, working 14-16 hour days 5-6 days a week. Dealing with every imaginable problem under the sun. Managing platoons of over 200 Soldiers at times.. I am being forced to sign a 4187 extending my Platoon Sergeant time all the way up until I start clearing for retirement. I kicked and screamed about this for days on end with my CSM's and was finally told that if I didn't sign the 4187 my Brigade CSM would call my branch manager and have me immediately placed on assignment and would ensure that I was not allowed to retire.

Take all this for what it's worth. Personally I am almost at a loss for words about the way in which I am being treated after I busted my butt for 2 years doing this job without ever skipping a beat. I have never in my entire career felt so screwed over by my chain of command. Never. I know most of this is my local chain of command but it just goes to show you how little our senior leadership (especially CSM's) really care about the NCO's below them.

I have never in my career tried to get out of any assignment, duty, or deployment. I've always done exactly what the Army needed me to do. Now here I am literally single digit months away from retiring and I have some dumbass CSM telling me that I need to keep doing a job that I've already fullfilled my obligation on right up basically until the day I am out of the Army. If I could go back in time I would have done anything in my power to get out of this AIT PSG duty.
Sorry to hear, SFC!!!

I believe the quality in training here at AIT-land is about to take a serious nosedive because of the Squad Leader crap, too!!!!

My MOS is fairly small, and of the 20 or so NCOs here right now, more than half have been here 15months or less, and are already trying to leave. My ticket out is Warrant School, a couple have left for White House comms, one guy went to a unit across the street and deployed to Iraq this month, someone else scored some orders for Germany.

I mean, sure, AIT instructing used to be a sought-after cushioned job, but this crap is ridiculous. I work almost the same hours you cited. But we don't even get the credit on the NCOER that the Platoon Sgts do.

We were "supposed to" be rotated out of squad leader job after 6months and just teach for 6months, but 15months later I haven't had a break except for Holiday Block Leave and other DA31s...

-------------------------------------------------
And speaking of not caring for the NCOs' careers-
One of my first PSGs had like 20months until retirement- when he got orders for GERMANY. Either 24months unaccompanied or 3yrs if he wanted to take his family.

Someone at HRC was probably laughing their butts off, over how they got that poor guy to serve an extra 16months..
The whole program is a scam. From day one we've been expected to perform the same duties as the drill sergeants we replaced along with working ridiculous hours. Without receiving a dime of extra compensation or even appreciation for that matter. I feel your concern with the squad leader/instructor deal as I see ours getting jerked 20 different directions on a daily basis.

The Army is really getting something for nothing out of AIT PSG's and SQD LDR's. It's probably best for the program that I'm retiring because if I were to stick around I'd make it my mission to let everyone know what a circus of smoke and mirrors this whole deal really is.

Once I actually retire... if they let me, LOL. I'll be staying local and you can bet your next paycheck that I'll be giving some CSM's a good piece of my mind once I hold that blue ID card.
quote:
Originally posted by SFC Slaughter:
The whole program is a scam. From day one we've been expected to perform the same duties as the drill sergeants we replaced along with working ridiculous hours. ...

The Army is really getting something for nothing out of AIT PSG's and SQD LDR's.


+1
I wouldn't mind as much if we at least got the "hooah hooah" credit that DS got for the job they did.

I know our AIT PSGs are getting good NCOERs out of it- as far as the E-7 board one of the CSMs said they considered the AIT PSG = DS.

It took a while here but the SQ LDRs were getting an "additional duty" on the NCOER, but now they're going to put it as "Instructor/ Writer/ AIT Squad Leader" in the NCOER job title.

It wouldn't bug me so much if they weren't still thinking this (AIT Instructor) was a super-cushy job and giving it as a "reward" for deployment.
(That DID used to be the case, prior to Dec07.)

Seriously, my wife and plenty of others have said that this is almost as bad as deployment!!!!
I volunteered for Drill Sergeant duty recently. I have been a AIT Squad Leader for 14 months. I will just say that Iraq is a break from this place. I cant wait to go to school, at least you get a certain recognition for being a Drill Sergeant, not to mention incentive pay.
I too have recently been selected to attend the AIT Platoon Sergeant school at Jackson as well. Needless to say I am not thrilled about it.
I am currently deployed, and I would much rather do more deployements then be stuck there for my final 3 years of my active duty service. I feel unjustly done by being placed on assignment while deployed, especially after the "almighty" branch manager told me I would not be put on assignement until after I returned from my current deployment. Then they wont even let you manage your own career, they just push you aside and tell you to suck it up. I have a real problem with someone who is in no position to make choices about my career, especially since I am a Senior NCO. Branch managers have too much power and no sense of obligation to other fellow Senior NCOs when it comes to their career. I have a few friends who know others who have been selected for this duty, and needless to say it isn't something that I am looking forward too. I would think they would go out and recruit those who would be willing to volunteer for this duty rather than nominate those who would prefer to be out there supporting the GWOT. Don't get me wrong, I realize that the Army has needs all over the place, there just has to be a better way to get a selection process going for this duty then what they have going now. If anyone out there has any suggestions on how to get deleted from this duty, please toss them out there. I have tried pretty much everything I could think of, and nothing has worked.
As an AIT PSG for 2 years now @ Ft Sam Houston, I'd like to say how amusing it is to me how everyone has the support of the squad leader / instructors. We have the same theory here, but its not implemented at all. The Sqd Ldrs are not a part of the Bttalion per se they fall under the Dept of Combat Medical Training (DCMT) So they do't do anything with the Soldiers except teach. The also provide us with PT support and pulling duty NCO. But as far as dealing with Soldier issues... no they don't. Dont get me wrong I'm not knocking them I happen to thibk we get gr8 support from our instructors. My point is that thats is what they are Instructors not sqd leaders. So when lil Johnny acts up in school its us that have 2 drop what we're doing and go deal with the issue. We take care of the pay issues, the DX'ing of uniforms, Profile reviews, barracks maintenance, and inspections, linen turn in, PT test grading, the massive amounts of counsellings, Citizenship issues, Immunizations, serving as a taxi service to take Lil Johnny to his dental, Mental health or ortho appointment. Oh and dont forget you still have additional duties such as EO, UVA, master Driver, fire Marshall, etc. All this and more for one NCO for a platoon of upwards of 70 Soldiers. Yet some individuals think that we dont need the extra pay. Because PSG's dont get payed extra in the regular Army. I also find it offensive how some others make the Drill Sergeants out 2b some kind of mythic figure, while PSG's are somehow inferior. If I got the extra pay I guess I'd feel better. But hey we did get a snazzy new PSG leather tab to hang of of our pockets I guess t make up for not having the pumpkin patch of our Drill SGT betters. I also hear that there is a Permanent PSG badge coming out. I hope its made of solid gold then all the sacrifices and time away from my family will be worth it.
quote:
Originally posted by Jaime Navarro:
The Sqd Ldrs are not a part of the Bttalion per se they fall under the Dept of Combat Medical Training (DCMT) So they do't do anything with the Soldiers except teach.


You're getting the shaft- sorry to hear!!

Most other AITs now have the instructors assigned to the same Companies the PVTs are in...
I did Instructor/Squad Leader for a year and was at work from 0445 to about 1815 everyday, with 50min for lunch. The PSG was assigned nights for a while so I was "assistant PSG". We also did CQ at the Barracks for 12 hours on the weekend every 3rd week or so. (In addition to 24hr BDE Staff Duty every 3-4months)
Powermeter.. I have been an AIT PLT SGT for over 2 years now in Ft Gordon. It seems like there has always been a rift between the instructors and Plt Sgts (if you ask an instructor if they would like to become a Plt Sgt they ALWAYS say no). In my Unit we have the same problems with instructors complaining about everything. I'm not saying the instructors do not contribute and I am grateful for thier assistance. I would have gone crazy if it wasn't for them. My opinion is that they return to the 12 Drill SGT MTOE they had previously.

Typical day for a AIT Platoon Sergeant is from 0445 to 1800 (but usually later- 1845 to 2000) Monday through Friday. Sundays for an hour or two at 1800. That is Standard times... but you usually work longer and sometimes on Saturday. In our Unit one PLT SGT does night shift Sunday 1800 to Friday0600 and the instructors take 12 hour shifts from friday 1800 til Sunday 1800. There is no such thing as a breakfast/lunch/dinner break. You grab what you can when you can. I typically eat once or twice a day on the run.

If you are trying to choose between Drill SGT and AIT PLT SGT..

Drill SGT gets more respect/resources/money/cycle breaks. The Drill SGT hat was there to assist the Drill Sergeant with maintaining area of effect discipline. That tool has been taken from AIT Plt SGT. I've asked previous Drill SGT's who have become AIT Plt Sgt's and they say that AIT Plt SGT job is far more difficult. The Soldiers do not have the extreme structure (and only 8 week time frame) to keep them in line. They party constantly and some are bold enough to tell you to fuck off and run away from you. Sounds unbelieveable but it happens ALOT to all of the Plt Sgts in every Company. Some Soldiers stay here over a year waiting for orders/PT test/chapter. At one point we had almost 600 Soldiers in our company and 7 AIT Platoon Sergeants (one of those was the Senior Plt SGT). I'll be completely honest.. I hate this job and cannot wait to leave. I'm completely exhausted from 2 years of these crazy hours. It is, however, getting a little better. With the decline of the outragous sign on bonus the quality of IET Soldiers is increasing and we're having less problems. Most want to be here.
Try being put on assignment from Germany as an E5. I received orders for AIT land and could not for the life of me understand why. And since arriving almost 1 year ago I still do not know why I am here. I do appreciate the training that I have received since being assigned to 1 of the companies as lol (operations NCO) although a civilian was doing the job. I have my "8" identifier. I now work in the BN since my company was deactivated, and thank God I am going to reclass to something bigger and better. It's true though about the PSG's they do work their butts off. The SLs have been torn between the school house and the company and they also work their butts off. I will never understand this mentality that the army used to replace DS. I do know that being an E5 and coming here was horrible/rewarding. I did have to learn mighty quick on how to march Soldiers. Going from a squad of 5 in Germany to marching 250+ Soldiers on a daily basis was a great learning experience.

The only advice I can give anyone that on their way to becoming an AIT PSG or Instructor/Writer for the males is "KEEP THAT CRAP IN YOUR PANTS" I am struggling to gain my rank in the Army and am watching you SSG/SFC give that shit away like its Tic/Tacs. Throwing away marriages/families and losing all the respect that everyone bitches about not getting here in AIT land. The funniest thing I have heard here is from the BDE CSM. I quote from the CSM " You're an E5 and statistics prove that you're the one I need to watch out for? You young SGTs are the ones sleeping with the Soldiers!" Uh CSM check yourself and see that it's not us "E5s" It's your SSG/SFCs. I wish I had the balls to say it though. But I just sit back and watch all the Trouble Makers come and work for BDE under that same CSM. Big Grin

good luck to all Cool
I just came from Fort Sam Houston and I was an AIT Platoon Sergeant. This job is a crop of bull. No pay (unlike Drill Sergeants), no promotion recognition (I'm still a SSG), all the Drill Sergeants that I knew got an MSM when they left, myself and a couple other AIT Platoon Sergeants got ARCOM's.
They say that Drills do more than us, I have to disagree. When I was in AIT, I remember Drills turning Soldiers away who weren't even getting paid, telling the Soldiers, "that wasn't their problem", we as AIT Platoon Sergeants would be hung if we ever ignored the Soldiers. In fact the ait Soldiers are treated better then we are. I took care of every issue they had, with no help. I had a platoon of 90 almost every cycle for two years and I NEVER had Squad Leaders. It was me and my platoon every time. I even assisted in instructing out in Camp Bullis and out by Salado Creek (if you're a medic you'll know what I'm talking about).
I was there for 2 years, working extraordinary hours, all for an, ARCOM and an at a boy!
Please don't email me to tell me that I'm just upset, HECK YEA I'M UPSET! I know this and you do too, all I'm trying to tell you is that this job does nothing for you for career enhancement, do yourself a favor and find another job that's worth it. Oh by the way I was voted by the Soldiers 6 times as the best Platoon Sergeant so, NO I NEVER TOOK IT OUT ON THE SOLDIERS. I did my job honorably and to the best of my ability.
quote:
Originally posted by Powermeter5K:
Well I have been working as an AIT Instructor with the additional duty of Squad Leader at Fort Gordon for just over a year now. Let me tell you, it is terrible. We work 14-16 hour days typically. We have memorandums from our CSM stating the different duties and responsibilities of AIT PSG's and AIT Squad leaders. They all make sense. The problem is that no one follows that direction. What is supposed to happen is that the PSG's whos only job is to handle the soldiers are supposed to be primarily responsible for the day to day duties such as running PT and counseling them for Phase-Ups. The Squad Leaders who already have an all day job teaching their respective MOS on the platform end up carrying all this on their shoulders instead of the PSG's. We typically show up earlier than they do and leave later. I am not saying that the PSG's are not doing long hours and hard work, but it is not running the way it should. TRADOC says that the squad leaders are there to assist the PSG when they need it, not to actually run a squad as they would in a normal unit. Problem is that some of our AIT "Squads" are larger than normal platoons. And some of the companies are larger in size than a BN. Having 18 NCO's to run a larger than BN size element is ridiculous. Most of us would rather be deployed again just to get out of the duty. And even though we are doing what the PSG's are supposed to be doing, they always try to make us feel like $&*t bags by telling us, "You are a NonCommissioned Officer. Suck it up." I would love to have all day to spend with the privates being able to devote all my attention to making them into better soldiers unfortunately us Instructors are not afforded that luxury, but the PSG's are and they aren't doing it.




Fort Sam Houston you have no squad leaders and the companies always and I mean always consist of 450 to 500 soldiers. Leaving the PSG with a platoon of 80 to 90+ Soldiers. You don't believe me, go and call A Co 232 and check their numbers right now. 210-221-5774. Instructors are Instructors in Sam and they come out to do PT with us, and they pull Duty NCO with us, but they are not their to be squad leaders, not while I was there from 08 to 10.
quote:
Originally posted by Jaime Navarro:
As an AIT PSG for 2 years now @ Ft Sam Houston, I'd like to say how amusing it is to me how everyone has the support of the squad leader / instructors. We have the same theory here, but its not implemented at all. The Sqd Ldrs are not a part of the Bttalion per se they fall under the Dept of Combat Medical Training (DCMT) So they do't do anything with the Soldiers except teach. The also provide us with PT support and pulling duty NCO. But as far as dealing with Soldier issues... no they don't. Dont get me wrong I'm not knocking them I happen to thibk we get gr8 support from our instructors. My point is that thats is what they are Instructors not sqd leaders. So when lil Johnny acts up in school its us that have 2 drop what we're doing and go deal with the issue. We take care of the pay issues, the DX'ing of uniforms, Profile reviews, barracks maintenance, and inspections, linen turn in, PT test grading, the massive amounts of counsellings, Citizenship issues, Immunizations, serving as a taxi service to take Lil Johnny to his dental, Mental health or ortho appointment. Oh and dont forget you still have additional duties such as EO, UVA, master Driver, fire Marshall, etc. All this and more for one NCO for a platoon of upwards of 70 Soldiers. Yet some individuals think that we dont need the extra pay. Because PSG's dont get payed extra in the regular Army. I also find it offensive how some others make the Drill Sergeants out 2b some kind of mythic figure, while PSG's are somehow inferior. If I got the extra pay I guess I'd feel better. But hey we did get a snazzy new PSG leather tab to hang of of our pockets I guess t make up for not having the pumpkin patch of our Drill SGT betters. I also hear that there is a Permanent PSG badge coming out. I hope its made of solid gold then all the sacrifices and time away from my family will be worth it.


Agree totally, by the way it's me ROCK. We were on the tour together. A Co 232
quote:
Originally posted by 19K4X2B:
The idea behind the implementation of the AIT Platoon Sergeant as opposed to the Drill Sergeant is to provide Soldiers with the ability to follow orders given by an NCO wearing a beret just as they would if the orders were given by a Drill Sergeant. That’s how it was explained to me by an upper echelon TRADOC CSM. Take it as you will.

I believe it is because AIT Drill Sergeant duty was much easier than BCT or OSUT duty because of the difference in work hours and the fact that the Soldiers have been trained in basic Soldiering tasks and values. Certain members of TRADOC noticed this and removed all of the AIT DS’s from the equation. Thereby saving the Army a lot of money on incentive pay, and a lot of time/money training DS’s to do a job that a high speed SFC can do. You will not have to attend Drill Sergeant School. It will be a challenging and rewarding job as you will be given a chance to mold the future leaders of our great Army on a grand scale.


Nice theory, however if that were the case. Do away with the Drill sergeant in Basic training, then you wont have to worry about the reprogramming the PVT's to follow the beret/now thank God the patrol Cap. Seems to me that when I was an AIT PSG the PVTs didnt learn squat in Basic anyways. I wont fault the DS's since I'm convinced they are as limited by TRADOC as we were.
quote:
Originally posted by 371Brooklyn:
quote:
Originally posted by Jaime Navarro:
As an AIT PSG for 2 years now @ Ft Sam Houston, I'd like to say how amusing it is to me how everyone has the support of the squad leader / instructors. We have the same theory here, but its not implemented at all. The Sqd Ldrs are not a part of the Bttalion per se they fall under the Dept of Combat Medical Training (DCMT) So they do't do anything with the Soldiers except teach. The also provide us with PT support and pulling duty NCO. But as far as dealing with Soldier issues... no they don't. Dont get me wrong I'm not knocking them I happen to thibk we get gr8 support from our instructors. My point is that thats is what they are Instructors not sqd leaders. So when lil Johnny acts up in school its us that have 2 drop what we're doing and go deal with the issue. We take care of the pay issues, the DX'ing of uniforms, Profile reviews, barracks maintenance, and inspections, linen turn in, PT test grading, the massive amounts of counsellings, Citizenship issues, Immunizations, serving as a taxi service to take Lil Johnny to his dental, Mental health or ortho appointment. Oh and dont forget you still have additional duties such as EO, UVA, master Driver, fire Marshall, etc. All this and more for one NCO for a platoon of upwards of 70 Soldiers. Yet some individuals think that we dont need the extra pay. Because PSG's dont get payed extra in the regular Army. I also find it offensive how some others make the Drill Sergeants out 2b some kind of mythic figure, while PSG's are somehow inferior. If I got the extra pay I guess I'd feel better. But hey we did get a snazzy new PSG leather tab to hang of of our pockets I guess t make up for not having the pumpkin patch of our Drill SGT betters. I also hear that there is a Permanent PSG badge coming out. I hope its made of solid gold then all the sacrifices and time away from my family will be worth it.


Agree totally, by the way it's me ROCK. We were on the tour together. A Co 232


Whazz up Rock!! Hows Ft Hood treating you? email me knuckle head! jaime.navarro@amedd.army.mil

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