Counseling Statement (DA4856) Changed After the Fact

If a Soldier received a counseling that said one thing, signed it, requested copies, and then a month later after repeated requests finally received a photocopy of the counseling with the Soldier's signature on the back, but the front said something different than what it said when it was signed, how does the Soldier go about proving that it was changed? How does the Soldier demand to see the original without crossing into the boundary of making serious allegations without proof?
Original Post
With your signature on the back...that is pretty much a closed case...I looks like you signed whatever it was...but most soldiers do not understand that they are not siging they agree or disagerr with the councling they are simply signing. that there ADMIN data is correct...lessond learned next time make a photo copy on the spot
quote:
they are simply signing. that there ADMIN data is correct...


WRONG-

Signing and checking Agree/Disagree is to verify that what was on the DA 4856 (parts II & III along with the Plan of Action) are in fact what the counseling session was about.

Common misconception for NCO's... It is actually a 2166-8 (NCOER for you rookies) that is signed by the NCO to verify that Admin data is correct.

That is all...
quote:
Originally posted by SSG TRII:
With your signature on the back...that is pretty much a closed case...I looks like you signed whatever it was...


it is SO easy to Digitally send, open in paint, copy a signature block and paste it on the place of another signature block on a "NEW" digitally sent 4856

THIS is why you request a copy of the counseling you recieve every time you get counseled like Autobahn said.

I tell my guys tape their counselings next to their desk in the barracks to use like a reminder for the plan of action so there is no excuse of " I forgot " when they violate it.
I know this post is a little old but I'll respond anyway for future readers.

There is a section on the back of the 4856 for the counseled soldier's comments. You should ALWAYS place remarks in this section. Even if the remarks are just reaffirming what was stated in the plan of action. This is also your time to speak on your behalf if you disagree with anything on the counseling. Most people are satisfied with just expressing their side of the story verbally and then they just sign the written counseling. DON'T BE! Tell your side, in writing!

This serves a few purposes.
1. It's your right. You may have a legitimate reason as to why you were late, why your PT score went down, etc. THIS IS NOT FOR MAKING EXCUSES! On the flip side...it's your chance to talk about how you succeeded in a positive counseling, "My PT score improved to 300 because I went to the gym everyday for 3 months and began training for a marathon that I will run next month".

2. You are setting a trend. If you consistently do this and you have a record of 6-7 counselings that you make comments on and then you get one that you "signed" with no comments, you can make a legitimate argument based on the trend. It just makes it harder for someone to change.

3. Good 1SGs read counseling packets. There is just as much growth and development for the NCO writing the 4856 as there is for the Soldier being counseled. Your comments will tell the 1SG the WHOLE story and gives him a clear picture of the dynamic between the NCO and the Soldier, good and bad.

I want to make this next point EXTREMELY clear. If you use that space to start bitching about how you don't like your NCO, come up with bullshit excuses about missing formation, slander your CoC, or just be generally rude or immature, this method will backfire and you will bring some well deserved hardships on your life! Use this technique as I've described, and you will have a chance to tell your side of things, call attention to your efforts that have led to success, and tactfully call attention to a good or bad relationship with your NCO.

Good Luck.

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