Erroneous NCOER

I have been a new reclass in 2005 but then 2yrs later I was tagged for recruiting. Now in 2012 I returned to the line an was put as NCOIC. For not being in my MOS much, I have done pretty good and I have facts. This is by no means my opinion. I have just received an NCOER 2/2's which is not bad but yet it is not competetive. I have never received any juditial punishment in my military carreer. In this Unit, I never received an INITIAL, NEGATIVE OR POSITIVE counseling. I have worked countless hours and even came in on weekends to support my unit downrage. My NCOER does not reflect that at all. I have even recently received a 95% GO on my SAV / CIP. I feel there is personal feelings in this NCOER and would like to do the right thing in the right steps to correct this. I have already been through my chain of command and there is no support. after looking at my original NCOER, I revised it and quantified it and it was ignored. I sent it to my rater(who PCSd) on 18 September and when I received it back a month later(17 Oct) it was the same copy signed. So basically my rater ignored my NCOER. My 1SG even admited to revising(for the worse) my NCOER and sending it back to my rater. I have been through DA PAM 623-3 I am just trying to understand the whole system. My NCOER has not been signed by rating officials. THRU date Sep 1.

Here are my questions:
Do I need to go to JAG first?
Do I first do a Commander's Inquiry?
Do I do what I was told a "Challenge"?
Can anyone provide me with an example of the memo or whatever I need to submit?
Original Post
OK, you're a little hard to follow in a few spots but I think I understand that basics. You just got an NCOER (which may or may not have been signed by everyone that part is hard to follow) and you got 2/2 on it and you think you deserve better. First 2/2 is absolutely competitive and in all honesty, what a large number of NCOs actually deserve. There has been a big push recently for the Senior Rater blocks to actually be meaningful the way they were designed instead of being their 1/1 or trash. Just out of curiosity, what was your rater markings (realize the 2/2 came from your Senior Rater). Have you talked to your Senior Rater? From what you have described, I personally don't see any real reason to challenge the NCOER although there is nothing to stop you. I would suggest you talk to your Senior Rater and 1SG about this first though before spending a lot of time on something that will likely fail.
I was given all "success" by my rater. I am not saying this out of anger but I am in a unit that has no support. My 1SG basically said the "sorry buddy thats what you get". I am not the bootlikker type soldier so I can get a great NCOER. I get rated by my performance.

Now, my Provisional Rear Commander does not like how this is going since he is getting a picture of this unit in the past 2 months that he has been here.

My NCOER was completed weeks before my THRU date(Sept 1, 13). My NCOER was then modified and returned to me around the 2nd week of September after my Rater PCSed. The Following week on 17 September 2013 I resent my revised NCOER(attached) back to my rater. He then indicated that he would look over it and make suggestions. On 15 October 2013 the initial(Attached) NCOER was apparently signed. On 17 October 2013, a day after I was told by my rater that it would be emailed to me, I realized that it was not. So I requested it from 1SG who indicated that it had already been sent downrange. What I saw is the original NCOER, the only difference was that it was signed by my rater. This was a full month exhausted with the same results as the original NCOER and no suggestions to my revised NCOER.

No justification:
1. There was never a initial written and signed counseling presented to me period and/or within my first 30 days of my rating period
2. I was never counseled on key points of what was expected of me.
3. I was never quarterly counseled.
4. There was never periodic Follow-up counseling based on observed actions and demonstrated behavior/results on what was done well and what could be done better.
5. I was never negative counseled.
6. I was never positive counseled.
7. I was never given a final Counseling session prior to end of my rating period.

I am trying to understand how there can be success bullets and 2/2 block conscientious assessment of a my performance in my assigned position and with no potential for increased responsibility and service in positions of higher ranks if there is no supporting justification. NCOER part III: block f—Counseling Dates: those are false dates because I was never counseled on either of those dates and they were omitted, therefore the board would have to know why counseling was not accomplished. I have performed above this level and I am now going through my chain of command and rating scheme before moving forward.
quote:
Originally posted by Alphahunter:
No justification:
1. There was never a initial written and signed counseling presented to me period and/or within my first 30 days of my rating period
2. I was never counseled on key points of what was expected of me.
3. I was never quarterly counseled.
4. There was never periodic Follow-up counseling based on observed actions and demonstrated behavior/results on what was done well and what could be done better.
5. I was never negative counseled.
6. I was never positive counseled.
7. I was never given a final Counseling session prior to end of my rating period.


1-3. Yes that should have happened and if I were to spend the time going through the Pam/Reg, I am pretty sure they are required to submit a memo explaining why it didn't happen but short of this being a negative NCOER it isn't going to make any difference.

4. Not required

5. So?

6. And?

7. Not required although it is generally considered a good idea for the rater to go over the eval with you.

Are you saying that the success you got from your rater are correct but you're upset that you didn't get a 1/1? If that is the case then I hate to break it to you but you got what you deserved (and in my personal opinion 2/2 is even a little high.

According to AR623-3 an excellence is
quote:
Excellence. Exceeds standards; demonstrated by specific examples and measurable results; special and unusual; achieved by only a few; clearly better than most others.
while success is
quote:
Success. Meets all standards; majority of ratings are in this category; fully competitive for schooling and promotion. The goal of counseling is to bring all NCOs to this level.
Congrats you did your job to standard! Nothing more, nothing less.

When it comes to the Senior Rater rating for Overall Performance you get:

quote:
— Successful/superior. A “1” rating represents the cream of the crop and is a recommendation for immediate promotion. A “2” rating represents a very good, solid performance and is a strong recommendation for promotion. A “3” rating also represents a good performance and, should sufficient allocations be available, is a recommendation for promotion.
— Fair. Represents NCOs who may require additional training/observation and should not be promoted at this time.


For Overall Potential you get:

quote:
— Successful/superior. A “1” rating represents the cream of the crop and is a recommendation for immediate promotion. A “2” rating represents a very good, solid performance and is a strong recommendation for promotion. A “3” rating also represents a good performance and, should sufficient allocations be available, is a recommendation for promotion.
— Fair. A “4” rating represents NCOs who may require additional training/observation and should not be promoted at this time.


Your senior rater did his job and thinks you should be promoted (it even says it in the description of the rating). Truth be told I have senior rated a Soldier who got all successes he got a 2/3 rating (if you can just get by doing your current job, what makes me think you should be doing the next guys?) As I said in my earlier post, it was once 1/1 was really the only way to be competitive for promotion and it completely lost its meaning. Today, senior raters (like yours) are actually doing their job and giving a fair rating based on the reg and promotion boards are looking for that. If you have one or two good bullets and then the rest fluff with a 1/1, the promotion board is going to ignore the entire report as BS. If you rater/senior rater give a fair rating and the appropriate comments, it will do a lot more for you in the long run. Like I said, if you want to try and appeal it, by all means do but I don't think you will find anyone who has any sympathy for you and you will just waist your time in the end.

Edited for formating
I really do not understand your last statement. You're basing your opion of correct judgement based on what I wrote and not of what you have seen of me or my bullets or even better what hidden drug deals goes on in this unit, like anywhere else in the army.

DRUG DEAL EXAMPLE: My rater(11A) receives an pure awesome OER for 7 months of taking over and he stated over the phone(after PCSing) that he did everything when he jumped on board.

(Did what? He does not know this job. all he did is tasked, I worked and managed and my soldiers completed the tasking on time and accurate.)

But here we are with him getting an awesome OER because of us(the main source). Now how does that place me at the bottom of the barrel?

THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT

Oh lets not forget the 95% GO we(the office) received on our SAV/CIP that was said to be in better standards than BDE.
quote:
Originally posted by Alphahunter:
I really do not understand your last statement. You're basing your opion of correct judgement based on what I wrote and not of what you have seen of me or my bullets


And that's what an NCOER is= something written and that's the majority of what the board sees. They won't know of any "drug deals" or anything else.

Sooooo

What Chief is saying, if your NCOER looks really good (excellents and 1/1) but doesn't say anything is WORSE than getting lower numbers and "real" bullets.......
TheWiseChief,
1. Its more of a personal feeling bullets verses job performance bullets.
2. Its more of fear: "I have to write this or else the seniors will think different of me"
3. Its more of my 1SG telling me in my face that he himself revised it and returned it to the rater.(meaning he changed bullets himself)
4. Its more of the unit I am in that Seniors TIC when the highest ranked NCO says TOC whether its right or wrong.
5. Its more of the rating chain not having justification documentation to support the bullets if need be to be presented.
Alpha,

SNCO checking in here. I honestly dont know what you are upset about? A 2/2 is a good rating, and the majority of Soldiers should be happy with this rating.

Need to check DA PAM 623-3 and AR 623-3 and figure out what the rules are for appealing an NCOER. Do your gripes/complaints fall under the things that Appeal boards would look for?

If you would like further help discussing the strength of your bullets, then post them and lets see what kind of rating others would give you. If you have additional bullets you would like on your NCOER give examples.

You have not proven your case to ANYONE here yet, so push harder to come with specific examples and reasons why your bullets should be updated, and your rating should be different.

For example, you state that you were given all Success marks by your rater... do you feel that is what you deserve? If you deserve more, why so? What is your idea of an Excellence?
quote:
Originally posted by Alphahunter:

No justification:
1. There was never a initial written and signed counseling presented to me period and/or within my first 30 days of my rating period
2. I was never counseled on key points of what was expected of me.
3. I was never quarterly counseled.
4. There was never periodic Follow-up counseling based on observed actions and demonstrated behavior/results on what was done well and what could be done better.
5. I was never negative counseled.
6. I was never positive counseled.
7. I was never given a final Counseling session prior to end of my rating period.

I am trying to understand how there can be success bullets and 2/2 block conscientious assessment of a my performance in my assigned position and with no potential for increased responsibility and service in positions of higher ranks if there is no supporting justification. NCOER part III: block f—Counseling Dates: those are false dates because I was never counseled on either of those dates and they were omitted, therefore the board would have to know why counseling was not accomplished. I have performed above this level and I am now going through my chain of command and rating scheme before moving forward.



Ok, 2/2 is a good NCOER and to answer your questions.

1. Why didn't you ensure this was happening. (Two weeks in, you should have been asking about an initial counseling.)

2. Why didn't you inquire about what was expected of you. How did you know what you were suppose to do.

3. Again this is on you as much as your rater.

4. Once again this is on you.

5. Hence the success.

6. Hence the success.

7. Again this one is on you.

The NCOER is a document that if you want done right, you need to ensure the proper steps are taking place. It might even show your rater/senior rater you are taking the initiative.

Next time be more involved in the process and you need to be doing the things you mentioned with your Soldiers. Break the cycle.

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