For AG Soldiers

IN MY SHORT CAREER I HAVE BEEN IN SITUATIONS WHERE YOU HAVE PEOPLE FROM COMBAT ARMS BRAGGIN ABOUT HOW HARDCORE THEY ARE AND HOW WE AG SOLDIERS ARE JUST PAPER PUSHERS. DO NOT LET COMMENTS LIKE THOSE DISCOURAGE YOU. AS AN AG SOLDIER I HAVE BEEN WHERE SOME OF THOSE SO-CALLED COMBAT ARMS SOLDIERS HAVE BEEN. I HAVE TRAINED WITH THEM AND HAVE BEATEN THEM IN THEIR OWN GAME. JUST LIKE THE 4 OUT OF 4 I GOT IN THE PLDC LAND NAVIGATION COURSE IN UNDER 43 MINUTES. IF I RECALL RIGHT A LRSD SOLDIER COULD NOT EVEN COMPETE AND THATS HIS JOB!!! NOT TO TAKE AWAY FROM THOSE SOLDIERS, WE ARE SOLDIERS TOO. AND IN THIS ARMY WE SUPPORT EACH OTHER, WITHOUT EACH OTHER WE HAVE NO. WITHOUT THE AG WHOS GOING TO PROMOTE THOSE FUTURE LEADERS, WHEN YOU ARE RECOGNIZED, WHO IS GOING TO TYPE THAT AWARD AND SEND IT THROUGH SO THAT IT SHOWS IN YOUR FILE. JUST AS YOU HAVE CASUALTIES OF WAR, SO YOU HAVE SOME ACTIONS THAT WERE NOT COMPLETED CORRECTLY. 1 TEAM , 1 FIGHT AND THATS WHAT ITS ABOUT!
Original Post
This is good advice, you shouldn't let anyone put you down because of your chosen MOS. If your job wasn't important, the Army wouldn't have created that MOS in the first place!

Of course, I don't listen to Combat Arms much .... I've heard shouting matches between tankers, arty, and ground pounders on who's "real Infantry" :shock:
[quote:d7febe3693="steadyrock18"]I was with Infantry before my job as a 42A now. Infantry might be tougher and faster, but 42A are smarter and get more work done.[/quote:d7febe3693]

I reclass next month to 42A (Army chose it for me). What exactly is your job? This is not a put-down, I just want to know what I can look forward to doing.
To me, every job in the Army is important. Everyone must work together to make the Army tick. People who think tht combat arms runs the Army are a bunch of pea-brains, who would not get promoted, get awards or get paid if it were not for an AG (or finance) soldier. :lol:

Have fun, SGT_P! It's not that bad, it can actualy be a challanging MOS.
Well I currently do personnel actions, which is basicly a lot of paperwork. I deal with 4187s and other amry forms. I also Inprocess/Out Process soldiers here in our battalion. This job is a lot different than my former job which was Infantry. This job keeps you busy and you really touch people's lifes so you have to double check every piece of paper before you send it out. So SGT_P hope you have fun as a 42A, I know I am. If you have any question just email me @ phillip.j.bachus@us.army.mil
For the any soilder who is familiar with AG (finance) to be specific. What exactly does it mean when they say that your "top loaded" and your not getting your payroll?

Im not being paid and its been almost 3 months now. My UA is aware of this and says Im' "top loaded"

:?:
AG!!!!Give me a break so your a PT stud you still sit behind a desk and push papers. I always see combat arm soldier working in your S-1,2,3,shops but you will never see a PAPER PUSHER doing our job. Sure we are all Infantry first!!!! But come on Ive been to the felid with AG soldiers couldnt set up a GP medium, couldnt sketch a range card, couldnt call for fire, dig a fighting position, site a minfeild,or hell even complete proper CTT. Dont get me wrong your good at pushing papers.But we dont need AG to it we could do it easily ourselfs. I mean come on I had a highspeed AG SFC once ask me how to fill a radio.lol...AG out front!!!!!!!

"Lets not forget if you push papers YOU PUSH PAPERS"
Hey Sapperfirst....

Don't bust all AG out. I personally know a few 21B's that can not complete CTT. So it does not matter if you push papers, or blow shit up. Besides the fact that this forum is not here to talk down about every other MOS. I am an E-5 21B right now that is reclassing to 42A ("Pencil Pusher" in your words). So I guess since I have to reclass, this means I will not beable to complete CTT next year. OH NO what to do. I understand that you have your opinions but in this case keep it to yourself.

Ever heard the saying "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all"? Live by it, it will get you farther ini life. And no I am not some snot nosed punk that has been in the Army for a couple of years.

Now I do not mean any disrespect towards you, I just get ticked off when every MOS believes they are the backbone of the Army. The Army needs every MOS that we have.
SGT P.

By you reclassing I would not look down on you. You have done your time but let me give you a little advice. The way that you correct,talk,train soldiers now as a 21b is a whole new world then when you will be a 42a its all political. How do I know I am currently trapped with 42a soldiers and have been told many times that this is not a combat unit you cant do these things. But you will see. As for will you be a paper pusher....yes but a well trained one.
Sapper,

I used to be like you. Bringing down the AG and other support MOS. I have learned the hard way. I use to be an infantry scout in the 82nd, 2nd Bde, 2/325th AIR. I enjoyed being an infantry scout and would have done it all my army life, but one thing for sure kept me from doing so. I shattered my knee during a S.P.I.E.S. exercise. The UH-60 was flying (NAP) Near as Possible and rammed the whole scout team into a tree. I was on the receiving end of the tree. This terminated my tour as infantry and loved the army so much that I opted for the reclass instead of a MED board. Here I am a 42A and found it that it's a different challenge and much more of a shoulder bearing occupation. In the scouts we reported what we recon and sabotage our intended objectives, easier said than done. In this field, we process the paperwork, so you wouldn't have to. It's easier to say that this MOS is easy and that common saying AG's don't work is myth. Paper after paper, pay screwed up and constant questions about trailing allotments and pay deductions. The list goes on and never ends. When the mission is done on the infantry side, the battle still looms in the AG side. We all need each other and never doubt for once that you alone could run the army. Just chill and keep your bias comments to yourself. Oh by the way, AG RANGERS LEAD THE WAY!
Before I comment here's a little background. I use to rig for a LRSD, then went to a mechanized combat engineer battalion as a sapper team leader, then to S1 as the section leader, back to a line unit and now I'm deployed with a PSD.

Who is needed more? Right now its infantry and combat support. That's not an opinion, its a fact. Look at the Army's transformation. They are giving up the combat service support positions (admin, supply) to civilian contractors and reorganizing our fighting forces into brigade sized units of action. There are field artillery units being retrained as provisional MPs.

Now, I know there are AG soldiers, sections, and units out there that lack basic combat skills. The blame falls on the IET system and their unit NCOs. Most (not all) AG soldiers go to Fort Jackson for BCT. As much as the Army likes to think that all BCTs are the same, they're not. I think some BCT posts are very weak. But I also think that the Army's BCT program is weak overall. Not enough field time, not enough small unit tactics, not enough land navigation, not enough combatives and not enough marksmaship. Then there is AIT. Some AITs are short (5 weeks) and some are long (10-25 weeks). Thats a long time to not maintain combat tasks or marskmanship. I spent 1 day in the field during rigger AIT. And believe me it was a joke.

As for NCOs in the unit, as a rigger I had to be able to perform right along side the LRS teams. As a sapper team leader I also worked the office as the admin guy, so I had to train extra hard. Then as a section leader in S1, I had a hard time getting through to my troops that their combat skills were more important then filing papers. But it felt very gratifying when one of those soldiers and I both mobilized with a new unit and she said to me 'now I understand what you were trying to do.' That was probably the best day of my Army life. Now in this PSD, the training at mob station was good (except for fighting the weather). But now that we're in country the train has damn near stopped. Some of these soldiers couldn't even fire their weapon or put their mask on right.

Now I'm hoping that GEN Schoomaker's new philosphy that ever soldier be a warrior helps improve the combat skills of all soldiers. But like every other change that has occured in the Army, its going to take enforcement by NCOs and officers to get the job done. NCOs must understand what GEN Schoomaker and SMA Preston are trying to do, believe in it, and carry it out.

So who is more important? It doesn't matter. Each of us has our role. As long as we can all operate as part of a fire team in the defense or during a convoy and also perform our job, whether that be combat, service, or support, then the Army will continue to function and win wars.
I was a grunt before most infantrymen know what a grunt was. I re-joined the Army as 42A. Both jobs are hard, one on the body the other on the mind. Niether can live without the other. The next time a grunt comes up and says something derogatory, just tell them "Remember, we're the ones who do your promotions, NCOERs, awards etc." Without us, they would be a ribbonless privates stuck in someplace they wouldn't want to be.
quote:
Originally posted by sappersfirst:
AG!!!!Give me a break so your a PT stud you still sit behind a desk and push papers. I always see combat arm soldier working in your S-1,2,3,shops but you will never see a PAPER PUSHER doing our job. Sure we are all Infantry first!!!! But come on Ive been to the felid with AG soldiers couldnt set up a GP medium, couldnt sketch a range card, couldnt call for fire, dig a fighting position, site a minfeild,or hell even complete proper CTT. Dont get me wrong your good at pushing papers.But we dont need AG to it we could do it easily ourselfs. I mean come on I had a highspeed AG SFC once ask me how to fill a radio.lol...AG out front!!!!!!!

"Lets not forget if you push papers YOU PUSH PAPERS"


I seriously doubt you could do the jib of an AG or Finance soldier yourself. I was a 42F before I reclassed, and being in the 82nd, I've dealt with very many combat arms soldiers who don't know the first thing about their personnel records or their pay. So let all the infantry, artillery, tankers, etc take over all finance and personnel operations and see how jacked up it becomes. Everyone has their job, we are all needed. While you're at it, why don't you take all the enlisted soldiers out of the hospitals and replace them with CLS from some combat arms unit, get my point?
quote:
Originally posted by sappersfirst:
AG!!!!Give me a break so your a PT stud you still sit behind a desk and push papers. I always see combat arm soldier working in your S-1,2,3,shops but you will never see a PAPER PUSHER doing our job. Sure we are all Infantry first!!!! But come on Ive been to the felid with AG soldiers couldnt set up a GP medium, couldnt sketch a range card, couldnt call for fire, dig a fighting position, site a minfeild,or hell even complete proper CTT. Dont get me wrong your good at pushing papers.But we dont need AG to it we could do it easily ourselfs. I mean come on I had a highspeed AG SFC once ask me how to fill a radio.lol...AG out front!!!!!!!

"Lets not forget if you push papers YOU PUSH PAPERS"

I forgot to mention that during my time as a 42F we had a small number of combat arms soldiers that we worked with. Let me tell you they were forced to be there, did not want to be doing our job, and couldn't peform simple tasks assigned to them. AG is much more than "paper pushing". I would like to see how a bunch of combat arms soldiers would deal with the systems that a 42F uses daily, such as eMILPO, EDAS, TOPMIS, PAS-R, etc. Believe me, it's a lot easier to learn how to do patrols, set up tents, sketch a range card, etc. than it is to learn all the Army's rules and regulations, the ins-and-outs of many different information systems that you will have to use as an AG or Finance soldier.
Been in an Infantry Battalion S1 shop for the past 5 years (my whole career). I love being down there on the line and being in the 82nd and jumping with these guys and helping them out and going outside the wire with them. Here is one thing I noticed about AG and Infantry. If you are an AG dude in a infantry Battalion, your ass is going to the field to do the same stuff the 11Bs do. You will do live fires, stress shooting, land nav, 12 mile and up to 20 mile road marches, combatives, JFEXs (oh how we love those) and training for all of that stuff. Because when you deploy guess who goes outside the wire quite a bit with the line guys. S1 goes out quite a bit with them. Here is what I noticed though, as long as you are helping your guys out and they are providing you with the information you need to square them away everything is good to go and everyone is getting along fine. I often as an S1 guy am asked to go out on missions with the CSM and BC. I have also been asked to go out with the scouts before. It all depends on what kind of soldier you are. Are you an all-around soldier or a one-functional area soldier?
With all respect to Combat Arms guys...When you are going to promotion board, getting Purple Heart, ARCOM, CAB, correcting your overcharged leave, helping you fill TDY voucher, add promotion points, update your ERB, get help writing NCOERs or awards, correct your records before you will be considered for E7, or if simply have finance trouble and your wife/husband and kids have no money to buy food, you will come to see AG Soldiers and we will help you! You may spend more time getting your family and personal/carreer problems fixed than doing your job if you got a Superman's attitude. Watch out, this is a dangerous way! AG Soldiers usually work for your SGM and BC. There is more in it than you think...

We are a the Army of professionals and we all want to get paid, get promoted, get schools, assignments, ETS and PCS orders, awards and NCOERs we deserve! If you are a combat arms E6/E7+ you will not be succsessful if you are not either good at AG taska or have a very good AG staff on-board.

Once you reach E6 level you WILL be writing NCOERS and awards for your Soldiers and NCOs, this is not AG job! And you better be proficient with a dosen of ARs or be nice to your admin folks who can help you. Otherwise your First Sergeant and SGM is going to have a LONG talk about your soldiers skills and efficiency. Try to explain your Soldiers who has been in combat, that their awards has been downgraded because you do not know how to write a proper citation that your BC did not like. I am not going deeper into the details...

The higher you climb up the ladder, the more AG work you gonna do. Your First Sergeant and Sergeant Major have a desk FLOODED with awards, NCOERs, Article 15s, chapters, PCS/ETS/CLV/PTDY leaves, deferments, deletions from orders, AWOLs, requisitions, and other paperwork and issues that you do not even know! They are taking care of Soldiers.

The biggest mistake you can ever make is to underestimate your support MOSes! They are going everywhere YOU go. Their only purpose is to take care of you. One team - one fight!
quote:
Originally posted by USoldier:
With all respect to Combat Arms guys...When you are going to promotion board, getting Purple Heart, ARCOM, CAB, correcting your overcharged leave, helping you fill TDY voucher, add promotion points, update your ERB, get help writing NCOERs or awards, correct your records before you will be considered for E7, or if simply have finance trouble and your wife/husband and kids have no money to buy food, you will come to see AG Soldiers and we will help you! You may spend more time getting your family and personal/carreer problems fixed than doing your job if you got a Superman's attitude. Watch out, this is a dangerous way! AG Soldiers usually work for your SGM and BC. There is more in it than you think...

We are a the Army of professionals and we all want to get paid, get promoted, get schools, assignments, ETS and PCS orders, awards and NCOERs we deserve! If you are a combat arms E6/E7+ you will not be succsessful if you are not either good at AG taska or have a very good AG staff on-board.

Once you reach E6 level you WILL be writing NCOERS and awards for your Soldiers and NCOs, this is not AG job! And you better be proficient with a dosen of ARs or be nice to your admin folks who can help you. Otherwise your First Sergeant and SGM is going to have a LONG talk about your soldiers skills and efficiency. Try to explain your Soldiers who has been in combat, that their awards has been downgraded because you do not know how to write a proper citation that your BC did not like. I am not going deeper into the details...

The higher you climb up the ladder, the more AG work you gonna do. Your First Sergeant and Sergeant Major have a desk FLOODED with awards, NCOERs, Article 15s, chapters, PCS/ETS/CLV/PTDY leaves, deferments, deletions from orders, AWOLs, requisitions, and other paperwork and issues that you do not even know! They are taking care of Soldiers.

The biggest mistake you can ever make is to underestimate your support MOSes! They are going everywhere YOU go. Their only purpose is to take care of you. One team - one fight!


All I have to say is HOAAAH!!!!!
I am a retired Soldier. I spent 4 years in the Infantry and 16 years in Finance. When I renlisted for Finance in 1979 I, and three other young SGT's, went through the culture shock of being assigned to a TDA Finance office that had NEVER been to the field. Some of the SR NCO's and none of the officers had ever been to the field. In August 1979 this office was realigned as a TOE Finance and Accounting Company and given orders to begin field training. That first field exercise was a comedy of errors to sone of Combat arms experience, tents fell, foxhols collapsed, challenge and passwords were compromised...the list goes on. The commander asked the 4 of us to teach the Finance Soldiers what skills were needed for the TOE organization. We did. The main difference in the skill of a Combat Arms Soldier and a "Paper-Pusher" is in the level of training received. All Soldiers are capable of Combat Arms and with the right training will excel in that area. All Soldiers could do the AG job as well if they are willing to put in the time to learn all of the regulations and skill sets needed.

In todays Army the Finance Support Teams that deploy with the Combat Arms units provide their own security, navigate on their own, use the same tactical radio network , and suffer the same field conditions with the added responsibility of ensuring all of your paperwork is properly filed so that you can be paid on time every time.

Who is better? Neither. Who is more capable of killing the enemy? Combat Arms. Who is more capable of ensuring you get paid, promoted, awarded, doctored, dentaled and maintained so you have the oportunity to kill the enemy? Combat Support Units of all types.
quote:
Originally posted by SGT U.S. Army (Retired) T.E. Hiett:

In todays Army the Finance Support Teams that deploy with the Combat Arms units provide their own security, navigate on their own, use the same tactical radio network , and suffer the same field conditions with the added responsibility of ensuring all of your paperwork is properly filed so that you can be paid on time every time.


That's true. For the most part FSTs are doing pay missions on their own but if the Combat Arms unit need finance support they must provide security. Unfortunately Finance units are not authorised any heavy weapons and vehicles like infantry. Going on a pay mission is a very risky business. You are carrying bags full of cash and disbursing officer is personally responsible for it. There is no doubt such team can be a attacked while enroute to the point of service and without any MTOE-authorised heavy weapons it can be an easy target. That is why FST is usually escorted by MPs. You not gonna scare guys with RPGs and RPKs with your MTOE-given M249, but 50-cal can do some damage and repell attackers.

Due to mandatory reclassing and increased number of combat injuries, alot of Combat Arms are joining Support MOSes. Both can contribute to each other like you said. I have seen both very talented and dedicated infantry Soldiers working in Finance. I also know Finance Soldiers who's been in combat and completed the mission. It all depends on quality NCOs who train Soldiers properly. Nowdays you will see alot of support Soldiers wearing CAB. There is no big difference between AG and CA Soldiers anymore because of the war
My story:

Joined the Army back in the day as an 11B. Got out of the military. When I re-joined my noobie recruiter said 11B was overstrengthed so I looked at other MOS.

I became a 42A.

Now, I am sitting in 42A BNCOC and I am about to shoot myself in the freakin skull. I absolutely hate life as a 42.

If you like your MOS, then hey by all means enjoy it and be proud of it.

BUT, as an ex 11B I will say that most of the 42 soldiers I've dealt with are trash. Just the ones I've dealt with though mind you.

Whiners, overweight, political, etc..

I hate every day in my MOS.

Plus promotion points are freaking outrageous! I dont see why a douchebag 11 series gets E6 as easy as farting after eating beans and my 42 ass has to damn near get a doctors degree.

It makes no sense.

Oh well, I am saying screw all of it and putting my selection packet in.

Tie for me to do some real stuff for the Army.
I'm not acting like an elitist or throwing anyone under the bus.

There really are ALOT of trash here. And not by my standards but by regular army standards.

Just watch PT formation here...."Profiles fallout!" and over half (literally) of the formation will leave.

I understand reclass profiles and stuff but that is maybe like 2 individuals out of 60.

You fellow 42's really dont see this? A decline in the quality of soldiers in the AG field?

Call me psuedowhatever and say I'm "throwing people under the bus" but whatever.
SGT Airborne,
I'm with you- I've met exactly three 42-series Soldiers who I thought could actually do their jobs in a capable manner.

I have to stop right now though, because the rest that I've met (in 9yrs of service) will get me on a rant that would last a long time..

Feel free to fix it for me. Big Grin

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