Marginal 1059

Is there any way in overcomming a Marginal rating on ones DA 1059?


For instance, someone fails body fat percentage or the APFT. If they are under for the rest of their career or max their APFT every APFT after that, will they still have a posibility to get selected for promotion to SFC?


I understand there is no right or wrong answer to this. I would just like to hear everyones opinions on the possibility for promotion.
Original Post
That may have been the case before, but the trimming down of the Army has begun, and expect it to continue if the Democrats stay in power (and perhaps even if they don't).

There was an article that talked about how there was an over abundance of Sergeants First Class and above that failed tape, APFT, DUI, all that kind of crap, and how the Army was going to try to force them out.

I'm not saying you'll never advance again, I'm just saying don't be surprised if it hurts you in the long run. These 1SG and whatnot that people are talking about were most likely promoted after the troop build up started.

I don't know what your MOS is, but I can tell you that in my MOS, they picked up zero SFC this year and a very small amount of MSG as well. Having a marginal 1059, especially if it was near the top of your record (say for example at the board you only had one NCOER after the 1059 as opposed to the 1059 being from 5-6 years ago), would most likely bump you from consideration immediately in my MOS.

That's obviously just a personal opinion as I don't think anyone could honestly answer your question with 100% certainty.

They do say that even one bad NCOER shouldn't ruin your career but if you are constantly up against peers with perfect or near perfect NCOERs and 1059s I don't see how it COULDN'T hurt you, especially if your MOS is competitive.
HEIDELBERG, Germany — The Army is reviewing personnel records of nearly 19,000 noncommissioned officers as it seeks to purge the senior enlisted ranks of underperforming, or even criminal, leaders.

The records are being checked for courts-martial, negative evaluations, failed leadership courses, removals for cause, reprimands and other disciplinary actions incurred since these sergeants made their current ranks. Among the reasons for records of reprimands and disciplinary actions are driving under the influence, sexual harassment charges, drug abuse and alcohol problems.

If such sergeants do not voluntarily retire, they will, for the most part, be discharged within six months.

“We’re trying to target those NCOs who don’t understand by looking in the mirror that they are not what the Army needs,” said Gerald Purcell, a Pentagon personnel expert and retired sergeant major who helped devise and carry out the program. “The time to learn and grow from your mistakes has kind of passed.”

After nearly seven years of suspension, what the Army calls the “Qualitative Management Program” is back, providing a means, the Army says, of ridding the service of marginal leaders. The QMP review applies to all retirement-eligible master sergeants, sergeants major and sergeants first class with 20 to 30 years of service in the regular Army, as well as the active Reserves and National Guard.

Some 19,000 senior noncommissioned officers – 3,000 sergeants major, 9,000 master sergeants and 7,000 sergeants first class – fall within the group to be scrutinized, Purcell said.

It’s unknown how many senior NCOs will see their records flagged and be forced to retire, but Purcell said that if he had to guess, he’d say upwards of 2 percent. That would be nearly 400 sergeants.

“This is a gut-check time for them,” Purcell said. “If their performance or conduct is substandard, it behooves them to submit their retirement.”

All would be honorably discharged and be able to retain their retirement benefits.

This move comes as the war in Iraq appears to be winding down, the U.S. economy remains mired in recession and the Army is having few problems meeting enlistment and re-enlistment goals. Recruitment bonuses have been discontinued and standards have been tightened elsewhere, putting an end, for example, to a program that allowed convicted felons to enlist.

Purcell said the QMP, which used to flag about 200 soldiers’ files annually, had been discontinued in 2002 because of the need to focus on fighting wars. But he denied that it was being brought back simply because these senior NCOs were now expendable.

Instead, he said, it had become increasingly clear that marginal NCOs who previously would have retired to avoid a QMP were no longer doing so without the program in place.

“We know it because the sergeant major of the Army gets notes about incidents and scenarios with senior leaders, incidents of misconduct,” Purcell said. “It’s become more frequent.”

Asked how senior NCOs could have accrued such demerits as letters of reprimand, Article 15s or, especially, courts-martial, and not already have been discharged, Purcell said that sometimes deference to rank provided an undue protection or leniency.

“A lot of what happens is – ‘move this guy, get him out of here,’ ” Purcell said. “All we’re doing is transferring problems,” he said.

Several NCOs said they’re happy that the QMP is back.

“I think it’s a good process,” said Sgt. Maj. Miguel Rosario, the V Corps sergeant major for personnel in Heidelberg. “It’s a tool that keeps you sharp. It reinstates good order and discipline.”

He added that he did not personally know any marginal NCOs.

“I do understand why we may have kept these guys around the last six years ...,” Rick Haddad, a retired E-8 who last served with the 10th Mountain Division and was medically retired after being severely injured in an Iraq bombing, wrote Stars and Stripes in an e-mail.

But “if you cannot meet minimal standards of conduct and schooling requirements, then you have no place hanging around,” Haddad continued. “Senior NCOs are supposed to be the standard bearers, and young soldiers need to be surrounded by those who constantly set the right example.”

Sergeants major will be the first group to be notified that their records have been flagged, and they’re subject to being forcibly retired after review and recommendation by a centralized promotions board. The board will meet in October.

Any bureaucratic errors — an Article 15 put in the wrong file, for instance — should be easily resolved, Purcell said. He also said that the program was not going after NCOs whose sole deficiency was an inability to meet weight standards.

“That’s not even something we’re targeting,” he said.

Master sergeants will be notified next, followed by sergeants first class, for which the board is scheduled to meet next spring. NCOs may decline to retire and fight the QMP.

“Let’s take a sergeant major who received a GOLR (general officer letter of reprimand) five years ago but since then has had above-reproach conduct,” Purcell said. That individual could theoretically argue, ‘My mistake should be overridden by my exemplary performance since then.’

“Then it’s up to the board. There’s some risk but that’s a personal choice every soldier has to make,” Purcell said.

The risk is that if the board rules against a soldier and puts him on the list for denial of continued service, that soldier will have only six months to retire once the list is approved or be involuntarily discharged. The list, like that for promotions, will be approved about a month after the board meets. The list is approved by the director of Military Personnel Management.

That means they’d be gone more quickly, and, some might argue, with less dignity.HEIDELBERG, Germany — The Army is reviewing personnel records of nearly 19,000 noncommissioned officers as it seeks to purge the senior enlisted ranks of underperforming, or even criminal, leaders.

The records are being checked for courts-martial, negative evaluations, failed leadership courses, removals for cause, reprimands and other disciplinary actions incurred since these sergeants made their current ranks. Among the reasons for records of reprimands and disciplinary actions are driving under the influence, sexual harassment charges, drug abuse and alcohol problems.

If such sergeants do not voluntarily retire, they will, for the most part, be discharged within six months.

“We’re trying to target those NCOs who don’t understand by looking in the mirror that they are not what the Army needs,” said Gerald Purcell, a Pentagon personnel expert and retired sergeant major who helped devise and carry out the program. “The time to learn and grow from your mistakes has kind of passed.”

After nearly seven years of suspension, what the Army calls the “Qualitative Management Program” is back, providing a means, the Army says, of ridding the service of marginal leaders. The QMP review applies to all retirement-eligible master sergeants, sergeants major and sergeants first class with 20 to 30 years of service in the regular Army, as well as the active Reserves and National Guard.

Some 19,000 senior noncommissioned officers – 3,000 sergeants major, 9,000 master sergeants and 7,000 sergeants first class – fall within the group to be scrutinized, Purcell said.

It’s unknown how many senior NCOs will see their records flagged and be forced to retire, but Purcell said that if he had to guess, he’d say upwards of 2 percent. That would be nearly 400 sergeants.

“This is a gut-check time for them,” Purcell said. “If their performance or conduct is substandard, it behooves them to submit their retirement.”

All would be honorably discharged and be able to retain their retirement benefits.

This move comes as the war in Iraq appears to be winding down, the U.S. economy remains mired in recession and the Army is having few problems meeting enlistment and re-enlistment goals. Recruitment bonuses have been discontinued and standards have been tightened elsewhere, putting an end, for example, to a program that allowed convicted felons to enlist.

Purcell said the QMP, which used to flag about 200 soldiers’ files annually, had been discontinued in 2002 because of the need to focus on fighting wars. But he denied that it was being brought back simply because these senior NCOs were now expendable.

Instead, he said, it had become increasingly clear that marginal NCOs who previously would have retired to avoid a QMP were no longer doing so without the program in place.

“We know it because the sergeant major of the Army gets notes about incidents and scenarios with senior leaders, incidents of misconduct,” Purcell said. “It’s become more frequent.”

Asked how senior NCOs could have accrued such demerits as letters of reprimand, Article 15s or, especially, courts-martial, and not already have been discharged, Purcell said that sometimes deference to rank provided an undue protection or leniency.

“A lot of what happens is – ‘move this guy, get him out of here,’ ” Purcell said. “All we’re doing is transferring problems,” he said.

Several NCOs said they’re happy that the QMP is back.

“I think it’s a good process,” said Sgt. Maj. Miguel Rosario, the V Corps sergeant major for personnel in Heidelberg. “It’s a tool that keeps you sharp. It reinstates good order and discipline.”

He added that he did not personally know any marginal NCOs.

“I do understand why we may have kept these guys around the last six years ...,” Rick Haddad, a retired E-8 who last served with the 10th Mountain Division and was medically retired after being severely injured in an Iraq bombing, wrote Stars and Stripes in an e-mail.

But “if you cannot meet minimal standards of conduct and schooling requirements, then you have no place hanging around,” Haddad continued. “Senior NCOs are supposed to be the standard bearers, and young soldiers need to be surrounded by those who constantly set the right example.”

Sergeants major will be the first group to be notified that their records have been flagged, and they’re subject to being forcibly retired after review and recommendation by a centralized promotions board. The board will meet in October.

Any bureaucratic errors — an Article 15 put in the wrong file, for instance — should be easily resolved, Purcell said. He also said that the program was not going after NCOs whose sole deficiency was an inability to meet weight standards.

“That’s not even something we’re targeting,” he said.

Master sergeants will be notified next, followed by sergeants first class, for which the board is scheduled to meet next spring. NCOs may decline to retire and fight the QMP.

“Let’s take a sergeant major who received a GOLR (general officer letter of reprimand) five years ago but since then has had above-reproach conduct,” Purcell said. That individual could theoretically argue, ‘My mistake should be overridden by my exemplary performance since then.’

“Then it’s up to the board. There’s some risk but that’s a personal choice every soldier has to make,” Purcell said.

The risk is that if the board rules against a soldier and puts him on the list for denial of continued service, that soldier will have only six months to retire once the list is approved or be involuntarily discharged. The list, like that for promotions, will be approved about a month after the board meets. The list is approved by the director of Military Personnel Management.

That means they’d be gone more quickly, and, some might argue, with less dignity.
I have a question I'm not sure anyone here will be able to answer. I just found out that I will be receiving a marginal 1059 for Drill Sergeant School. Here is the short version.

I took the APFT with my class 2 weeks ago and failed to score 70 points in pushups (I scored 64, but the course standard is 70.) Standards were not followed by the grader (not complaining...just a matter of fact) when he did not tell me what I was doing wrong (if anything) and did not count out loud the repetitions performed during the test (as stated in TC 3-22.20). After completing 8-12 reps I asked what the count was and he responded 2. I kept pushing and asked what I was doing wrong and he stated go lower. At one minute left I asked where I was at and he said "Ummm..35). When time expired I asked what I got. He said, "We'll call it, um, 43." So I was sent back two weeks and passed the PT test today with no issues at all.

On my 1059, I was informed that I will have at least one Superior rating, but it will be a Marginal 1059. What kind of effect will this have on my career with regards to promotion? My NCOERs are stellar and my last record APFT I scored a 282. Does anyone have any idea how this will look? Thanks.
I can't qoute a reg, and I am not even sure where to find it, but I want to swear that they can't give you a marginal 1059 if you met the 60 points in each event spelled out in the regs, EVEN if the school standard is different. I would seriously pursue this matter.
Unless somebody knows a specific reg or something, I have been unable to find anything. It sucks, but it is what it is. I just hope it doesn't negatively affect my promotions in the future. My NCOERs and duty positions are great, I have college, and I'm sure once I have a 1-1 NCOER as a drill sergeant will help...it will just suck if this holds me back. But if anyone out there knows any regs that would allow me to appeal it, please let me know.
It is important NCOs understand that a "marginal" 1059 makes you look piss poor when that 1059 is evaluating you in comparision to your peers such as a NCOES, DS School or Recruiter School.

It is reasonable to say that many NCOERs are falsely written, rating NCOs as 1/1 or above average with below average bullets. Therefore after your NCOER a 1059 is the 2nd most important evaluation you have in your records for DA boards.

When you are in your regular unit you may be the big fish in the little pond. When you attend ALC, SLC, 1SG Course and the many others, it is important you attempt to excel pass your peers.

Too many NCOs view 1059s at NCOES as a joke and pay the price down the road.

Lastly if I were ever rated or deemed below average,falsely, I would fight, fight, fight. Moving up to SFC, MSG, and SGM is only getting more competitive, every detail small or large, good or bad will be highlighted.
that sounds insane to me, especially since you passed your 2nd APFT with no problem, Im currently reclassing and we had a few people bust tape and fail APFT during the 1st one, but if they pass the 2nd one in a couple weeks they are fine, no marginal 1059....I would bring this up the chain, and if it comes down to it go to IG. you dont want that marginal (granted its not the end of the world but will make things much more difficult)

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