Mp's Saluting Officers

One of the MP's in my platoon (SPC) was passing by an officer. He did not salute her. She stopped him and told him he needed to salute her. He responded with "I do not need to salute you because I am under arms, ma'am". She said, "Oh okay, and walked away".

I talked to this MP and told him he needed to salute her and then I asked why he did not. He said that he did not need to salute her because he was under arms and it makes it easily accessible to reach for his pistol. He said he heard this from his old MP unit back in Korea.

I have never heard of this before. I told a few of my other MP buddies and they disagreed as well with the exception of another soldier. It happened to be that both of these soldiers were stationed in Korea.

Has anybody else ever heard of this ??? As far as I know, there is no regulation stating that MP's are excluded from saluting officers for the reason of having an M9 in their pistol belt.
Original Post
I think that it is bogus. There is only one time that I know an MP doesn't have to salute an officer, and that is when he is pulling gate duty. Hang on, I'm not finished. The MP takes the ID card first inspects it, gives it back and THEN salutes. That's about it though..
You can solve this, besides proving it by looking it up, by telling the soldier that that might be the way they do it in Korea, but in the states or your post that is not how it works.
The only time anyone does not render an officer a salute is:
1. Not able to, b/c of objects in hand.
2. No hat No salute area.
3. In a tactical environment.
4. Officer/Soldier in confinment.
5. Work Detail. (only one needs to salute the rest keep working)

Walking across along, not chasing bad guy's is a piss poor reason for not saluting.
Ok to tell you the truth, I have heard of that, but not in writing, just a few MP's told me this. I am an MP and I salute officers just the same as if I didn't have a pistol belt on. Now, at my last unit we were told not to stand at parade rest for NCO's because the pistol would be in reaching distance. But of course you need to use your head and if your talking to a very high ranking NCO then of course stand at parade rest. Even if I stopped an officer for whatever reason (patrolling) I would render a hand salute after the citation or verbal warning was given.

Any comments?
Some Soldiers read into things too much and make things much more difficult than they really are. I would like to think that I am trained good enough that I would be able to salute an Officer several feet away and still be able to use my left arm to push them away and reach for my weapon with my right hand should they decide to come at me.

I may even throw a salute at them as they are being hauled off in the patrol car. Smiler
If you are in a combat situation, then you do not need to salute a commissioned officer becasue it identifies the officer to enemy snipers, as is evidenced by officer killings in Vietnam.

In a non-combat scenario, it is wise to saluate a commissioned officer, unless [i:4b2a0baf0d](as someone else pointed out)[/i:4b2a0baf0d] your hands are full or something like that. Whoever told that enlisted MP that he doesn't need to salute an officer was wrong. Oh well. [i:4b2a0baf0d]< shrugs shoulders >[/i:4b2a0baf0d]

As a side-note, an Infantry captain can legally command a company of enlisted MPs, but an MP captain [u:4b2a0baf0d]cannot[/u:4b2a0baf0d] command a company of Infantrymen. The point[b:4b2a0baf0d]:[/b:4b2a0baf0d] An enlisted MP must still salute a commissioned officer, even if they are both under arms. Please don't throw rocks at me, as I've been an enlisted MP, as well as a commissioned MP.
you know what I don't understand is "Why they make such a big deal about giving respect to the officers" I know that some of them are goofy and do not know much but they are in the leadership position and we should respect that! How easy is it to salute?
I'm new to this but your reply will be part off my conversation tonight (as far as jokes) with my MP friends. Thanks for the smile.

[quote:2accde301d="SSG_K"]Some Soldiers read into things too much and make things much more difficult than they really are. I would like to think that I am trained good enough that I would be able to salute an Officer several feet away and still be able to use my left arm to push them away and reach for my weapon with my right hand should they decide to come at me.

I may even throw a salute at them as they are being hauled off in the patrol car. Smiler[/quote:2accde301d]
Nando,
I noticed from your profile you're in Iraq. I did a year with my unit in Baghdad and like everyone else is saying, that's BS. You do have to salute officers, armed or not. Many times after the initial ground war ended, we were told to salute officers outisde our compound while in the city, BIAP, green zone, etc.

What I'm curious about from all the other MP's out there is, doesn't anyone else have a problem saluting in a combat environment? I mean, when you're still being forced to wear battle rattle and Kevlar and be armed 24/7, isn't that a combat environment? Incoming mortars/rockets/RPG's? Last time I checked, that meant [i:dde6ca7993]combat[/i:dde6ca7993]! But, it got silly like that over there a few months after the ground war "ended" and I'm just glad to have gotten out when we did (April 2004). No offense to my friends in the 545th, but when the 1st Cav came to town about six months ago, it got even worse with things like this, but that's another post for another day.

Looking forwrd to your thoughts and be safe!
I'm not an MP but I hang out with 'all them alkies' all the time. The final word in our conversation was... since your supposed to salute at 6 paces, it is easy to withdraw the salute and protect oneself. When it comes to a previous post on the first page by BatesD, a Soldier in confinement must still salute Commissioned Officers, regardless of whether they are confined or not, friendly or not (unless the [i:eb34f50e20]Officer[/i:eb34f50e20] is the EPWs).
AR 600-25

[quote:aad4bc7326]Salutes are not required to be rendered by or to personnel who are driving or riding in privately-owned vehicles except by gate guards who will render salutes to recognized officers in all vehicles unless duties are of such a nature as to make the salute impractical.[/quote:aad4bc7326]
this is a little late but from day 1 of my military careere i was told that while working mp duties and under arms it is not mandatory for me to salute officers or stand at parade rest for nco's. the reasoning for this is 1. because it makes your weapon much more accessible to people: if someone were standing 16 feet away from me holding a knife or other weapon, they would be able to inflict harm on me if the charged me before i would have drawn my weapon, locked and loaded, switched to fire and raised it to them. this applies for anyone. if you don't believe me, try it with a buddy (without the gun of course!). the second reason is because if we respond to a call and as soon as we show up we salute the officer or stand at parade rest for the nco involved, we loose all control of that situation because the higher ranking individual will try to use their rank against us. when checking id's at the gate, we salute. Having said all of that, it also falls back on common sense. If you are not in a threatening environment then what is the problem with saluting an officer. I salute officers if they are not directly involved in a negative way pertaining to my job (I.E. them being the reason I was called out to something). It all boils down to the individual.
I CAN TELL YOU FOR MY UNIT HERE ON FORT LEWIS, WA; A MAJORITY OF US DO NOT SALUTE ANY OFFICER BELOW A LT. COL. IF I AM JUST WALKING AROUND AND NOT INVOLVED IN A INCIDENT, I WILL QUICKLY SALUTE AND GIVE THE GREETING OF THE DAY. BUT WE ARE NOT EXPECTED TO SALUTE ANY OFFICER WHILE IN EXECUTING OUR AUTHORITY AS A M.P.; OUR COL. TOLD US THAT IF THEY HAVE A ISSUE WITH IT, JUST SAY "SIR/MA'AM, I'M SORRY BUT YOUR INVOLVEMENT IN THIS CASE HAS TAKEN YOUR RANK OUT OF CONSIDERATION." THAT WILL LET THEM KNOW THAT THEY ARE GETTING THE SAME TREATMENT AS ANYONE ELSE.

AND NO WAY IN HELL WILL STAND AT PARADE REST FOR ANY N.C.O. ANYONE WHO KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT OFFICER SAFETY WOULD UNDERSTAND WHY. WE HAVE ACTUALLY HAD A E-7 ORDER A PFC (MP) TO PARADE REST DURING A TRAFFIC STOP... THE CSM. LATER GIVE THAT E-7 A LIL TALKING TO... ;-)

STANDING AT PARADE REST IS EVEN MORE DANGEROUS THAN SALUTING. I'VE LEARNED IN MY TIME, SOLDIERS ARE HUMAN: A LOT OF RANK OR NO RANK, THEY ALL COMMIT CRIMES...

AND DON'T GET ME WRONG, WHEN NOT PERFORMING MP DUTIES, I'M THE FIRST ONE TO PAY THE DUE RESPECT TO ANYONE WHO HAS EARNED IT, BUT JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN WHEN ON DUTY.
This thread has been here since before I was, and I've failed to throw in my 2 cents until now for two reasons:

1. I forgot it was even here.

2. It showcases that characteristic ignorance that MP's always get accused of for having.

First...
quote:
...as we show up we salute the officer or stand at parade rest for the nco involved, we loose all control of that situation because the higher ranking individual will try to use their rank against us.


That's the biggest load I've ever heard. Have you ever taken psychology? Most officers will respond positively to being treated like officers. If you treat them like s***, then they will most definitely try to show you who's boss. So yeah, YOU LOST control, but they didn't take it.

I do agree that standing at parade rest is a nono. IN MOST CASES. You can't tell me that if the SMA came up to you while you were just standing by your car, you wouldn't go to Parade Rest. If you didn't and I was him, I'd slap you... with some UCMJ action.

Hey MPs: CUT THE CRAP. Everyone's innocent until proven guilty, you know that. So stop pretending your gun and lack of a badge that you think you should have gives you the right and/or privledge to use customs and courtesies whenever you feel like it. 'Cuz guess what? THERE'S NO REG ON THIS BS. You'd be surprised by how much cooperation you get when you treat soldiers like people, not total peons.

Get a grip...and lose the 'tudes... Roll Eyes
quote:
Originally posted by Private Kelly:
I CAN TELL YOU FOR MY UNIT HERE ON FORT LEWIS, WA; A MAJORITY OF US DO NOT SALUTE ANY OFFICER BELOW A LT. COL. IF I AM JUST WALKING AROUND AND NOT INVOLVED IN A INCIDENT, I WILL QUICKLY SALUTE AND GIVE THE GREETING OF THE DAY. BUT WE ARE NOT EXPECTED TO SALUTE ANY OFFICER WHILE IN EXECUTING OUR AUTHORITY AS A M.P.; OUR COL. TOLD US THAT IF THEY HAVE A ISSUE WITH IT, JUST SAY "SIR/MA'AM, I'M SORRY BUT YOUR INVOLVEMENT IN THIS CASE HAS TAKEN YOUR RANK OUT OF CONSIDERATION." THAT WILL LET THEM KNOW THAT THEY ARE GETTING THE SAME TREATMENT AS ANYONE ELSE.

AND NO WAY IN HELL WILL STAND AT PARADE REST FOR ANY N.C.O. ANYONE WHO KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT OFFICER SAFETY WOULD UNDERSTAND WHY. WE HAVE ACTUALLY HAD A E-7 ORDER A PFC (MP) TO PARADE REST DURING A TRAFFIC STOP... THE CSM. LATER GIVE THAT E-7 A LIL TALKING TO... ;-)

STANDING AT PARADE REST IS EVEN MORE DANGEROUS THAN SALUTING. I'VE LEARNED IN MY TIME, SOLDIERS ARE HUMAN: A LOT OF RANK OR NO RANK, THEY ALL COMMIT CRIMES...

AND DON'T GET ME WRONG, WHEN NOT PERFORMING MP DUTIES, I'M THE FIRST ONE TO PAY THE DUE RESPECT TO ANYONE WHO HAS EARNED IT, BUT JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN WHEN ON DUTY.

quote:
Originally posted by trumpetist1:
I'm not an MP but I hang out with 'all them alkies' all the time. The final word in our conversation was... since your supposed to salute at 6 paces, it is easy to withdraw the salute and protect oneself. When it comes to a previous post on the first page by BatesD, a Soldier in confinement must still salute Commissioned Officers, regardless of whether they are confined or not, friendly or not (unless the [i:eb34f50e20]Officer[/i:eb34f50e20] is the EPWs).



I am pretty sure thata reg out there (i didnt see it in AR 600-25) states that a soldier in confinement(a prisoner) has lost the right to salute.
quote:

I CAN TELL YOU FOR MY UNIT HERE ON FORT LEWIS, WA; A MAJORITY OF US DO NOT SALUTE ANY OFFICER BELOW A LT. COL. IF I AM JUST WALKING AROUND AND NOT INVOLVED IN A INCIDENT, I WILL QUICKLY SALUTE AND GIVE THE GREETING OF THE DAY. BUT WE ARE NOT EXPECTED TO SALUTE ANY OFFICER WHILE IN EXECUTING OUR AUTHORITY AS A M.P.; OUR COL. TOLD US THAT IF THEY HAVE A ISSUE WITH IT, JUST SAY "SIR/MA'AM, I'M SORRY BUT YOUR INVOLVEMENT IN THIS CASE HAS TAKEN YOUR RANK OUT OF CONSIDERATION." THAT WILL LET THEM KNOW THAT THEY ARE GETTING THE SAME TREATMENT AS ANYONE ELSE.

AND NO WAY IN HELL WILL STAND AT PARADE REST FOR ANY N.C.O. ANYONE WHO KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT OFFICER SAFETY WOULD UNDERSTAND WHY. WE HAVE ACTUALLY HAD A E-7 ORDER A PFC (MP) TO PARADE REST DURING A TRAFFIC STOP... THE CSM. LATER GIVE THAT E-7 A LIL TALKING TO... ;-)

STANDING AT PARADE REST IS EVEN MORE DANGEROUS THAN SALUTING. I'VE LEARNED IN MY TIME, SOLDIERS ARE HUMAN: A LOT OF RANK OR NO RANK, THEY ALL COMMIT CRIMES...

AND DON'T GET ME WRONG, WHEN NOT PERFORMING MP DUTIES, I'M THE FIRST ONE TO PAY THE DUE RESPECT TO ANYONE WHO HAS EARNED IT, BUT JUST NOT GOING TO HAPPEN WHEN ON DUTY.




I agree with Kelly with the officer saftey... I feel that It all depends on common sense. I will do what my rank can afford at the time of the incident. 600-25 1-3 (E)states that we as MP's do have to salute even under arms BUT, it also states 1-3 (G)That its up to local commanders. I WILL NOT on a traffic stop or conducting investigations but it won't hurt to salute when normally passing an officer out of the blue.
Parade rest is the modified position of attention... i personally don't.
quote:
Originally posted by Nando:
One of the MP's in my platoon (SPC) was passing by an officer. He did not salute her. She stopped him and told him he needed to salute her. He responded with "I do not need to salute you because I am under arms, ma'am". She said, "Oh okay, and walked away".

I talked to this MP and told him he needed to salute her and then I asked why he did not. He said that he did not need to salute her because he was under arms and it makes it easily accessible to reach for his pistol. He said he heard this from his old MP unit back in Korea.

I have never heard of this before. I told a few of my other MP buddies and they disagreed as well with the exception of another soldier. It happened to be that both of these soldiers were stationed in Korea.

Has anybody else ever heard of this ??? As far as I know, there is no regulation stating that MP's are excluded from saluting officers for the reason of having an M9 in their pistol belt.


after being an MP for 8 years and running Here's how it works. You are required to salute an officer EVEN WHEN UNDER ARMS unlessit would put you or others at risk (i.e. if the soldier is apprehending the officer or someone in the local area)
I was an MP and was trained to not salute officers while under arms. We also did not stand at parade rest or attention while we had our weapon. It comes down to MP safety, not anything more. I don't know if it's in any specific regulation, but that's what the instructors taught us and also how we did things in our units...
Ok this has been going for a while... I was trained that while working at a gate any BLUE decal on a vehicle regardless of whom is in the vehicle you will salute, of course you see the decal before you know who is in the vehicle but that's just how I was training. I used to salute retired Officers, they love it!

As for parade rest, I will for a CSM however I modify it a little. What I do is since I am left handed my right hand is the only one that will go behind my back while my left arm hangs over my pistol.

Now Officers, beat me... depends on if I have my dog out if I salute or not. I will if I don't but if he is out I do not salute, I have yet to have an Officer have a problem with that. Now traffic stops I do not salute, but I also don't generally give tickets to Officers.
Yeah why not? I'm not saying that Officers will not ever get a ticket from me and I probably have given some. Enlisted are not above getting a ticket more so when it is a Post Reg coming from the CG and you wanna argue that I'm wrong. The ticket goes back to their Commander and they are dealt with then. Of course it depends on if I give them a warning or not.

Cool and Calm = warning
Yelling and saying I don't know what I'm talking about = no warning

Enough tickets even though it's not a money fine can get ones driving on post revocked (sp) or so I am told. I will also give another MP a ticket with no problem as they are supposed to up hold the laws in which they are breaking.
I ALWAYS salute officers while under arms. At Fort Polk a lot of MPs use that excuse to not salute which to me is BS, but I will NEVER stand at parade rest while on duty. I will give all common courtesy "Yes Sergeant Major" etc, but I will not stand at parade rest. That is acceptable where I am from, I don't know about where else but that's how I operate.



Oh and in the past 3 years ive been working, I've never given a single ticket. I don't like making life difficult for other people. I don't need to be an ass to people to feel good about myself. Everyone makes mistakes. I have more problems with the upper echelon of Fort Polk when it comes to traffic safety than I do the ordinary joe because they act like they can do whatever they want with no regard for anyone else's safety.
Treat everybody calmly and with the respect that every human deserves (but have a plan to kill them if needed)

I was in back when the MP's were Old School and sometimes they would even brag about getting a little "stick time" on some drunk, abusive, and belligerent 2nd LT or a sicko child molester back in the cell-but in retrospect that didn't make it right.

I always found that it was easier dealing with the drunk, high, and pissed off by not getting in a pissing match and escalating the situation. They make a move, it's on, but why go there if you don't have to.
I respect the idea that MP's are Military and Police, not Police Military, our bearing and discipline comes from our military heritage, so it seems logical that this debate continues on. The first thing that needs to be said is, unless you are a MP/31B who has worked the road, your opinion is not compelling...sorry to be rude, but you have no experience with what MP's must deal with and the dual role we play. To the other MP's I say simply this, if you don't think you are a Police Officer when working the road, you need to get your mind right. You are not a soldier performing law enforcemenr duties...you are the police, having a badge is of no consequence. MP's have the authority of the base commander, through applicable law and regulations. Guess what guys, the commander didn't give you the authority to apprehend, the UCMJ and MCM did! Understanding this is very important, because a if you think you are merely a soldier doing a job, with no real authority, then the public is in danger, your fellow officers are in danger, and you are too! A central tenat to this principle of understanding is, that all individuals under you are charged with policing are equally capable of doing harm and killing you! Officers are no exception, if you remember, Hasan was a field grade officer! If an officer starts to make exceptions in how he comes across and deals with individuals than his objectivity becomes jaded and his ability to stay professional is hindered. I have two classes of people, subjects, and everyone else. I treat pFC's the same as civilians the same as i treat officers the same as NCO's. The only differance is the way I adress them. As MPI, I called everyone sir or maam. Weapon retention is the often cited reason to no render salutes and stand at parade rest, it is a valid concern, weapon retention and officer safety should be exercised in all situations. The day you slip up and get laxidasial is the day you need to stop working the road, cuz you will get your self hurt or killed. Some suggest that the regs say MP's salute and since it happens six feet out a MP can quickly whip it up then chop it down. Well the regs also state that the enlisted initiate and don't drop until after the officer drops theirs...so lets be honest with ourselves both ideas are against regs, but only one recognizes officer safety. When dealing with to parade rest or not, the answer is NO! MP's are taught in Basic the ready position when talking to the public, one hand in a light loose fist that is covered by the other, arms slightly bent and to the front, one foot out in front of the other for a strong yet non aggressive posture. Standing with a narrow base with your hands behind your back, weapon exsposed, is bad policy, you can't scan your flanks and all your attention is to the front of you. The good csm not withstanding, you don't know who else might seize the opportunity to assault and disarm you. It also sets up a bad precedence. If you stand at parade rest in public view of other NCO's, they might wonder why you arent standing at it before them. I challenge you to find the regulation that mandates parade rest for superior NCO's...there isn't one, it merely says it is done because it is the right thing to do...well not when on the road as a cop! The situation can mostly be avoided anyway. Why are NCO's in your crime scene or cordon anyway? If a csm wants to get on my scene, then I have to nut up and tell that csm to please move back and that this area is blocked off. At this point you are moving to enforce the boundaries of the cordone. If the csm wants to chat a little, you chat with him, do a canvass interview to see what he knows and saw. In the end, if a NCO wants to confront and discipline a MP on the road, then that NCO needs to know that they are obstructing justie and acting disorderly! If you wouldn't allow a PVT to interfere in your investigation, why would you allow a NCO too!
Back to saluting at traffic stops...I am bladed when i approach a vehicle, and my hand is by my weapon. It then is grasping their information, on second approach, I either have my ticket book in hand or their information. When concluding the stop, I hand their information back, then walk backwards keeping my eye on them, then turn around and return to my vehicle...at what point did I have the opportunity to salute? Even if my hands were empty and I wasn't bladed, when do you salute an officer who is faced in the same direction you are...exactly.
Dispite contentions to the contrary, there is a sound military reason soldiers stand at attention and salute officers, as there are for parade rest for NCO's. Its a non verbal way of establishing who the superior is and who the subordinate is. It reinforces the chain of command and ultimatly reminds the lower ranking who is in charge. If you stand before someone, then by regulation they are in charge of that formation. By regulation only the one in charge of the formation can dismiss it, if your at parade rest, you must first come to attention to be dismissed. Not only is this dangerous, but it disallows the MP from doing his job as he is stuck until the NCO/O releases him. The only person who controls my MP's on the road, is the patrol supervisor, and the MPDO/LEDO...so which regulation do we choose to ignore? Again the MP is caught between the dual worlds he must occupy. I train my soldiers that they are in charge of whatever scene they are on, I train them to be assertive and do their job, I train them to be professional, not military professional, but police professional. If I could I would replace rank on the road MP with a us patch like CID!

In summation, officer safety, weapons retention, situational awareness, duty performance, bad presedence, command and control of assets and manpower, are all reasons why parade rest for sure, and saluting for the most part need to be curtailed and abandoned while working the road. If not then what you have is a cadre of glorified security guards, who arent being treated as police officers, and so strangely enough they dont act like police officers. Ive worked in places like that, and casework suffers, evidence is suspect, charges get dropped or fail to prosecute and over all crime prevention and public safety suffers. Treat the MP as a police officer, and he will act like one...he is not a PFC or SPC, he is a police officer, his rank is imaterial to the duties he is sworn and trained to perform. Come on guys, the highest ranking officer on post has delegated his authority to the MP. It is a no no to say, but it is absolutly true, do not confuse my rank with my authority. If it sounds like I think road MP's are special, and that we are cocky and arrogant, you might be right...MPs police the nations warriors and bad asses! The weak can't control a combat veteran, trained to fight, and in shape, and bring them into compliance. So leave us alone and let us do our jobs, if we offend you because we dint salute or stand still for you, don't be, we mean no disrespect! If you really feel that a MP needs to salute you and give you respect...or you feel the need to asert your authority over us...come to the station after shift and we will salute and stand at attention or p rest...but when we are working, lives are on the line stow your ego and let us be hero's and save the day Smiler
[
As a side-note, an Infantry captain can legally command a company of enlisted MPs, but an MP captain [u:4b2a0baf0d]cannot[/u:4b2a0baf0d] command a company of Infantrymen. The point[b:4b2a0baf0d]:[/b:4b2a0baf0d] An enlisted MP must still salute a commissioned officer, even if they are both under arms. Please don't throw rocks at me, as I've been an enlisted MP, as well as a commissioned MP.[/QUOTE]
Thats not exactly true...Infantry assets training IP's or iraqi mp's fall under the the PM cell. So a MP can command infantry. Furthermore, A company of MP's would never have any other offcer other a MP. Its a silly exercise and confuses the point anyway...the real issue is when MP's are empowered by the post commander, federal law, and regulation to be police officers. This designation changes all things drastically. For instance, a PFC can now apprehend anyone who violates the UCMJ on post subject to the code. No other PFC can do that! So an acknowledgement of the differing situation must be made! The regulations for saluting say that gate guards salute, unless inpractical to do so. Road MP's are not gate guards, even when covering down and helping check id's. The simple fact of the matter is MP's on scene are in charge, you aren't...unless you are the post commander. If you don't like a PFC telling you you can't enter or give you an order, to bad, disobey him at risk of apprehension.
I am at Ft stewart, and I train my road MP's to not stand at parade rest, not even for me, when in police uniform. I tell them that at all times they must take control of a scene and of the situation. standing at parade rest wrests control away and places my officer under anothers control and authority, and that can not happen! We have a job to do, and its protecting lives and property, we can't do that hindered by any limitation except that provided by law. Lastly, MP school teaches us to stand at the ready position when talking to the public...so theres your answer
MPs are not exempt from rendering military customs and courtesies except when that particular individual may present a threat to them. IE an Officer under apprehension, or while conducting a canvass interview with an NCO outside of that particular soldier's unit and not in a leadership position over that soldier.
Yes, the 94th MP BN just started regulating standards of MP training in Korea...but through the PNN it gets diluted to "we don't have to salute officers because we're under arms".

LICKY BEARS!
4-14. Salutes are not required when:

Indoors, unless reporting to an officer or when on duty as a guard.
A prisoner.
Saluting is obviously inappropriate. In any case not covered by specific instructions, render the salute.
Either the senior or the subordinate is wearing civilian clothes.

4-15. In general, you don't salute when you are working (for example, under your vehicle doing maintenance), indoors (except when reporting), or when saluting is not practical (carrying articles with both hands, for example). A good rule of thumb is this: if you are outdoors and it is practical to salute, do so. Outdoors includes theater marquees, shelters over gas station pumps, covered walkways, and other similar shelters that are open on the sides.

Copy paste outta FM 7-21.13, chapter 4. This soldier was wrong according to field manual standard. This is one of our bibles.

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