MP's Saluting on Duty

I see a lot of spreads on the subject, but I’m wondering if there is an actual regulation that states that while MPs are underarms and/or conducting duties that they are not required to salute officers.

Here is my situation:
I’m working on Camp ***** (For political reasons I’ll leave it as *). Unfortunately were a National Guard Task Force and as MPs we fall under the same Task Force where suppose to “Govern” so it’s a political match-off with authority. We can't even write 1408's. We're only allowed to issue verbal/written warnings. So were not taken serious. All the soldiers know, and they test the limits daily.

So the Scenario today was a LTC left his vehicle running in a no parking zone outside the DFAC. There was no one in the vehicle and it was left unsecured and still running. There was a vehicle that was parked behind it with three other occupants who I questioned may have been watching it. When I approached the unsecured Vehicle I turned off the ignition and proceeded to search for the vehicle dispatch so I could properly secure the vehicle and turn it into the MP station. A MSG who was in the Vehicle behind the unoccupied vehicle came out and told me that it was the LTC’s vehicle. I addressed her politely that it didn't matter who the vehicle belonged too the vehicle is in a no parking zone, and it was against AST policy (ARMY policy as well) to leave a vehicle unsecured. She took the Keys from me and said she’d secure the vehicle. I permitted this with good judgment, knowing that it wasn’t worth starting a feud over something so small. My partner and I waited for the LTC but the MSG cut us off and briefed him before we could. I still felt it my obligation as the MP to approach the vehicle and inform the LTC. when I exited my patrol vehicle I greeted him politely. I did not render a salute due to the fact he was holding a to-go tray (breakfast I presume), but I offered him a friendly greeting and then I proceeded to explained to the LTC Camp ***** polices. I would have probably rendered a salute but he was already entering his vehicle preparing to leave. I wished him a good day and was returning to my vehicle when same MSG approached me, putting her hand on me saying, “You still have to salute, he is a LTC.” knowing when to pick and choose my battles, I offered her a ‘Roger MSG’. To be honest I think she was out of her lane and I think she was personally interfering with MP operations. I felt that she didn't have the 'right' to touch my person as well. Of course I back briefed all this to my Desk Sargent (who’ve never been Desk Sergeants outside the civilian law enforcement) who was unable to give me proper guidance outside of "You probably should have?". Now none of are MPs have worked Garrison except for 1 or 2, and the experience is limited. I've been a combat MP most of my career and honestly I've never been taught outside of MP school proper MP protocol, and I was never told to salute outside of gate guard with is a given 'duh'. I'm wondering if there are any guidelines, policies, and regulations as an MP.

I have read up on AR 600-25 and the only argue points I could come across was AR 600-25 Para 1-5 (h) 2 and 4.

(2) Engaged in routine work if the salute would interfere.

*Officer safety, or in this case conducting routine traffic stops, or regular MP routine work.

(4) Working as a member of a detail or engaged in sports or social functions where saluting would present a safety hazard.

**Once again officer safety. As MPs it's argumentative that where on a detail working for PMO. At least at camp ***** we've been instructed that we are detailed to PMO, when we are off duty we're still employable by are MP command for additional duties/tasks.

If anyone can help it would be appreciated.

-FranChosenOne
Original Post
Please only post the same stuff in one thread.

My Opinion=
You did the right thing, given the situation.

If you do run into an Officer and don't render a salute, the Officer might be wondering why, and be more belligerent. Even if it was the right thing to do, you might have to explain yourself yada yada.

If you do salute, there's no question you did the right thing.
Thank you AutobahnSho for your advice, as for the secondary repeated post I've never used these post boards on this site before.

I talked with my MP command on the issue and my commander said he'd like to bring the issue up in the CUB (I think that's the correct acronym). He hopes that it will bring attention to the senior leaders that it's inappropriate to use your rank or position on an MP while executing there duties. Lets hope it works.
AR 600-25:
quote:
i. Salutes are not required to be rendered or returned when the senior or subordinate, or both are—
(3) Carrying articles with both hands so occupied as to make saluting impracticable.


This is why you did not have to salute in this situation.

If he was not carrying anything then you should have saluted. Just because you are performing the duties as an MP does not mean that Customs and Courtesies stop.

You handled the MSG very well, and did great not getting yourself in trouble over that.

I also don't think I would go about searching the vehicle like that. It was really an illegal search, though I am sure you could find a technicality to allow you to do it -that's what JAG is for.
quote:
Originally posted by IntheArmyMP:
AR 600-25: I also don't think I would go about searching the vehicle like that. It was really an illegal search, though I am sure you could find a technicality to allow you to do it -that's what JAG is for.


The vehicle was found left unsecured, unattended, and left on in a no parking zone. I was going through the vehicle searching in plain view for the dispatch an illegal search (I hope not)? We’ve been told by are PMO to secure dispatches on all unsecured vehicles ‘search’ probably wasn’t a good word to use, I didn’t go through anything out of plain view. Isn't that in compliance with the plain view doctrine? I was also told that all vehicles both civilian or government on a government instillation is subject to search at any given time. In this case it was a government vehicle, so even if I did conduct a full search of the vehicle wouldn't I have that right? Thank you for you're response and advice IntheArmyMP.
quote:
Originally posted by FranChosenOne:
Thank you AutobahnSho for your advice, as for the secondary repeated post I've never used these post boards on this site before.

I talked with my MP command on the issue and my commander said he'd like to bring the issue up in the CUB (I think that's the correct acronym). He hopes that it will bring attention to the senior leaders that it's inappropriate to use your rank or position on an MP while executing there duties. Lets hope it works.


Ha, good luck with that working out brother. You will always have someone who hates what we do and hates you for being an MP. Even if you are hooking up that Commander by not brining in one of his Joe's for something you easily could have. Always be professional and tact and you will be just fine. Once they cross that line though, well you know what to do. Do you guys have a Duty Officer on shift with you? Usually a Senior NON-COMM or 2LT/1LT. That would leviate some issues as well.
quote:
Originally posted by insertarmysaying:
I am not an MP but I will tell you a great quote I overheard one use while dealing with a particularly testy senior NCO: "Don't confuse your rank with my authority". I loved it. I have hit my limit with "Do as I say, not as I do" senior leaders. Rant over.


Amen.
I thought this was a recent event but saw the last post before Warpig's which was May 2011. OP, has probably left theater lol.

As a former MP, this is a very humorous situation from combat MPs who despise the MPs who work in a combat environment and try to play law and order in the combat zone. Personally, if the FOB is a salute zone than fine but when carrying out your MP duties, officer safety always trumps a salute and you were not run.

Besides a desk sergeant, there should have been a patrol supervisor (E-6) on duty and on patrol to answer the question to your dilemma. These are the types of questions that should come up during guard mount and when training is done before shift (e.g. levels of force training). A funny thing is that I knew many who wanted to reclass MP so they were always able to wear their beret, now PC indoors lol.
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