Soldier with Permanent 'NO PT Test Run' profile still running

NCOs,

I have a Soldier who received a permanent profile a year or two ago and at the time he was having knee pain issues. Over the last two years he has successfully rehabilitated and is now running more than most other guys in my section. He has made some posts on Facebook about him running eight miles in an hour, running a 13:15 two mile, and other impressive accomplishments.

I don't have any reason to doubt he's done these things, but my question is, what can I do to get him off of his profile? He has told me he wants to wait longer to see if his knees are truly healed, but I think at this point he's just holding on to the profile so he doesn't have to run the PT test.

What are my options?
Original Post
Chief, I should have specified that his profile says he can 'run at own pace and distance' so he's not technically breaking his profile.

We are deployed to Afghanistan now and so we don't have group runs. I do not believe I have any pictures of him running.

His profile is for five years and yes he does the walk.
What exactly is the concern here?

Quite honestly it seems that you see a soldier running and you're like "OOOOH, I'm gonna tell on you!!"

So long as he is following his own profile and still conducting the walk to standard, I do not see a problem.

Granted, I SUPPOSE you could speak to the 1SG or the commander about your "concerns" and actions can be initiated for him to be reevaluated by a COMPOTENT MEDICAL AUTHORITY or malingering charges be brought against him. I say this because you stated "Over the last two years he has successfully rehabilitated..."
I am all for using a profile when needed as I've had to use them myself. What I am not for is having a Soldier that can run faster/farther than most everyone else only have to do the PT test walk. I believe it gives the perception to everyone else that even though he could easily do the run, he is riding his profile. I mean, who wouldn't want a walking profile? You max pushups and situps, finish the walk in the allotted time, and you get a 300...

If he is able to do all this stuff he needs to join the rest of us in the run.
quote:
Originally posted by Mad Max:
If your Commander is registered and approved in eProfile, he or she can gain access to soldiers' profiles and see for themselves just what their limitations are. Why don't you invite your Commander to read his Facebook post. Also blocks 9 and 12 will have the names of the individuals who approved this profile. Maybe CO can have private talk with the "approval authorities" about this concern. Good luck dealing with HIPPA regs. If this soldier is "riding the system" well shame on them. I myself have had permanent profiles for a long time now. They allow me to run at my own pace and distance also. I'm very grateful to have this, and wouldn't dream of "riding the system"...

quote:
Originally posted by LuckyLu:
NCOs,

I have a Soldier who received a permanent profile a year or two ago and at the time he was having knee pain issues. Over the last two years he has successfully rehabilitated and is now running more than most other guys in my section. He has made some posts on Facebook about him running eight miles in an hour, running a 13:15 two mile, and other impressive accomplishments.

I don't have any reason to doubt he's done these things, but my question is, what can I do to get him off of his profile? He has told me he wants to wait longer to see if his knees are truly healed, but I think at this point he's just holding on to the profile so he doesn't have to run the PT test.

What are my options?


It is usually the norm that profiles are kept in the orderly room. Command should have the hard copies.
I have a copy of his profile and it says he can run, he just can't do the PT test run.

I have researched this more and according to the regulations the Commander can ask for a reevaluation. I've already grabbed pictures of his Facebook posts where he says he is running and I plan on talking to legal tomorrow to see what can be done.

I'm afraid though that he'll get reevaluated and tell the doctor his knee still hurts and perhaps not mention how much he is running, thereby getting his profile re-approved.
Good god, since you are an expert Facebook troll you should counsel him and tell him he has 30 days to be reevaluated. If he doesn't, take it up the chain. I don't understand what the huge deal is though. Obviously he was injured enough to get a permanent profile so just let him do his thing and all will be good.
quote:
Originally posted by LuckyLu:
NCOs,

I have a Soldier who received a permanent profile a year or two ago and at the time he was having knee pain issues. Over the last two years he has successfully rehabilitated and is now running more than most other guys in my section. He has made some posts on Facebook about him running eight miles in an hour, running a 13:15 two mile, and other impressive accomplishments.

I don't have any reason to doubt he's done these things, but my question is, what can I do to get him off of his profile? He has told me he wants to wait longer to see if his knees are truly healed, but I think at this point he's just holding on to the profile so he doesn't have to run the PT test.

What are my options?


why do you think he doesnt want to run his PT test? He runs 8 miles in an ahour, can run 2 in 13:15, but you somehow think he wants to walk 2.5 miles? Either way, I would tell him he needs to go see his primary care provided to start the paperwork to get off profile, if he says no, talk to the Commander about him malingering....
quote:
Originally posted by erikwithak86:
Why are you friends with your soldiers on facebook anyways?

I'm with sprat2 on this one. If he can run 8 miles in one shot or run a 2 mile in 13:00, who cares, he's obviously in shape.


Maybe this Soldier does not have his profile blocked so he can just search for him and look at his pics...
The Soldier's profile is valid for 5 years. You do not know the the status of his knee and the information that communicated between him and his provider.

I know a Soldier that had a P2 (received two PHs in combat) and decided to run but the P2 remained. I will suggest that you talk to the Soldier about his future intent on his knee and if his intent is to remain walking then leave it as that.

I have a P2 profile and afforded to walk. On some days the pain is minimal or not there on runs and some other days there is excruciating pain after 1/4 of a mile. The profile that is provided by the Medical Provider serves a purpose or it would not have been issued in the first place.
I agree with those who said to leave the Soldier alone on this.

The Army puts a high price on being within PT standards. Apparently the Soldier is, and you want to penalize him for it. As NCOs we should be doing everything we can to HELP Soldiers, NOT be looking for ways to hem them up to kick them out.

If you have never done the 2.5 mile walk, you really have no idea what you are talking about. That walk is not a leisurely walk in the park on Sunday. If you're not moving with a purpose you CAN fail it. Only those who have never done the 2.5 mile walk talk shit about it and those who have to.

I have a P2 profile that started out as a "No running whatsoever" profile, but had it re-assessed to a "Run at own pace & distance" but 2.5 mile walk on the APFT. Can I run? Yes. But from the initial evaluation I got at Ft. Benning via an MRI, excessive running will cripple me sooner than later. Depending on the weather, my knees are either just fine or are on fire/stabbing pain.

So if your Soldier is doing well, leave him/her alone. There are worse things a Soldier can be doing. There are other things YOU could be doing to improve your other Soldiers and the unit.
Well said Matt. I did the walk a week or so ago to see how it was and I will never want to do that again. I hurt more after that than I did last month after a half marathon. This leader should be using this Soldier as an example. I wish my Soldiers would do this while on profile.
Thank you all for the comments, advice, etc.

Let me give more of the backstory. This guy is currently in his primary zone for promotion and has had some discipline issues in the past two months or so. He is a smart Soldier and I believe he definitely has the potention to become a Sergeant, however he needs to tighten up shop before I want him joining the NCO Corps.

I am concerned about making him get reevaluated, because if the doctor confirms he should still have the profile, this Soldier may try to say I am biased against him because of his physical condition, and not because of other issues.

To those who have mentioned that the 2.5 mile walk is so hard, why would a Soldier who can run 8 miles in an hour or run a 13 minute 2 mile want to do the walk then?
Erik,

The first post the OP made stated that his Soldier received the profile about a year or two ago; yet he has a copy of the profile lol.

I think the Soldier in question has taken the walk test before.

I just think this is unnecessary drama in the war zone. The high-speed runner may save the OP's life someday.
Honestly, it doesn't sound like he's shamming, it seems like he is worried about hurting himself again.

Why go to legal? He is acting within the limits of the profile and is working to get better. That doesn't mean he doesn't hurt and isn't worried that he will hurt himself again.

Honestly? Your actions will probably guarantee that he stops working out.

What is important to you? What is your end state? That he keeps rehabilitating and remains on profile or that his profile is gone? If it is the latter, I'd think you need to re-eval why you are pushing so hard for it.
He has done the walk before and he's definitely not anxious to do the run again.

I have a copy of the profile, however I don't keep it in my room which is where I was when I made this post.

So when should this Soldier get off of the profile, after five years? What if the Soldier gets into good enough shape to do a Triathalon but keeps saying his knee hurts. How would that look to you?

It is important to me because if he is able to significantly exceed Army standards for the regular PT test then why isn't he doing it? Also, if all a Soldier has to do is max pushups and situps and then they get a 300, why WOULDN'T I want to stay on the profile as long as possible? I could get a 300 every single time. Is that fair to the people who actually have to run?

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