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Ive only seen NCOERs that are all 1/1 or 2/2, nothing else. Have any of you saw an NCOER with a mixed variation of 1 and 2??

Ive only had 2 NCOer, both 2/2 but I disagree with some of the ratings i've gotten..

For example.. On Competence my bullets are:

Certified first time go on Table VIII and Table XII while working outside his primary MOS
(I am a 25F working a 14J position)

achieved excellent performance standards during the Batallion SPEAR
(My 2 man crew was the top crew during this eval/ex scoring 93%/94% and we recieve ratings- excellent, satisfactory, marginal)


I recieved a 2... but i dont understand the logic of that.. I am working outside of my MOS and I am out performing actual 14J at this job, but that isn't considered Excellent?

Why is it that raters dont vary the ratins?

Yea ok, so I only scored a 250 on my PT test.. so i agree with a 2 on that.. But ive seen people that can get 300s and are average at everything else get nothing but 1/1..

Are there any Senior NCOs that can explain this to me please?
Original Post
No, I've seen 2/1 a few times, but I don't think a SR could justify more than a one number difference. Like how would a 2/4 or a 4/2 be possible?

Honestly, I think it's the most pointless part of the NCOER. Most senior raters rarely interact or work with the rated NCO and in most cases (IMO) it's like they are just "grading" what the rater wrote instead of providing their personal evaluation of the Soldier. Which again, makes it kinda pointless.

If I was sitting on a promotion board, I wouldn't even look at those numbers, just the bullets.
No, I have seen 2/1 NCOERs and 1/2 NCOERS, and some much more worse than that.

Sometimes certain duty positions/job titiles/units limit us to what we can accomplish so sometimes we have to work much harder to get a great rating.

If you look at each section of the NCOER, Competence, Physicial Fitness/MB, Leadership, Training, Accountability/Responsibilty the bullets right above each block kinds of point you in the right direction for what needs to be done to get a great rating.

Just because you are performing outside your MOS does not justify an Excellence in Competence. If anything it hurts because your are a Sergeant and you need to show competency in your MOS.

Its too easy to make yourself look good on paper, if you are attending college, sending your soldiers to college and courses, preparing soldiers for promotion boards and SOM boards, scoring well on APFTs, FTXs, LFXs, etc. Its just too easy.
Make yourself a GOAL list, things you want to accomplish to be successful

- win NCO of Month Board
- complete 20 SH of College
- qualify expert with weapon
- score 270 on APFT
- prepare 2 soldiers to attend and win SOM board
- enroll entire Team in Correspondence courses
- enroll soldiers in BSEP with low GT score
- enroll Soldiers in college
- perform well in every FTXs
- prepare and teach min 2 Skill Level one classes a week
- seek additional responsibilites(PLT Armorer, UPL, EO, etc)

The list goes on an on, and I know all of this is easier said that done but so achievable. You. Just have to strive for it. Honestly, I make a short term and longer term goal list and it works, sometimes I find myself reaching my goals faster than I thought
""I recieved a 2... but i dont understand the logic of that.. I am working outside of my MOS and I am out performing actual 14J at this job, but that isn't considered Excellent?""

Have you ever looked in the Reg to see exactly what a "2" means? The NCOER system is so saturated with false reports that NCO's believe a 2 is not good, only because they fail to dive into the reg.

Successful/superior. A “1” rating represents the cream of the crop and is a recommendation for immediate promotion.

A “2” rating
represents a very good, solid performance and is a strong recommendation for promotion.

A “3” rating also represents a good
performance and, should sufficient allocations be available, is a recommendation for promotion

In a Army like we have today where everyone gets a 1/1 for breathing we have issues with sub standard NCO's
I wish people followed the regs on NCOERS. It would make them mean so much more. In my experience, I feel like they have been more of popularity contest. My own included, and the worst I have had is a 2/2. I remember one where it happened to be 90-day change of rater, And I only had like one or two Excellence blocks from my rater, which I agreed with. (I had only been there 90 days also). But my Senior rater gave me 1/1.... Didn't argue of course, but I probably would not have rated me that way.

Overall, In my opinion, the NCOER system is broke.
You guys are right, a "2" is technically not a bad rating, but a "2" will slow you down for promotion once it comes to DA select boards.

Over the past yr I have sat through a total of 4 SFC DA board informatonal briefings from CSMs who have been on previous boards to provide guidence and understanding of the process and they know they system is corrupted and too many NCOs get undeserving 1/1, so to fix that they look at the bullets instead of the ratings and if you have 3 great bullets with a Success then they note that. If you have crappy bullets in a catergory and it reads Excellence, they downgrade it accordinly. Quantifiable bullets are key also, no fluff.

In the Infantry so many NCOs get 1/1 rating its extremly competitve, this is also why we have crappy senior leadership but the truth is in the bullets. I am sure this exsist in other MOS's also
quote:
Originally posted by Triwall:
1/1 should be reserved for winning the war with one hand tied behind your back.


Lol, I get what you are saying. I personally feel if someone is getting rated a 1/1 they should probably be the best of their rank in there Platoons as far as SGT/SSG goes, hell, you could even say top 3 in the Company within your rank. Otherwise it really doesnt make since because we all cannot be among the best.

Simply put a 1/1 should be reserved for that NCO who doesn't just meet the standard he exceeds the standard, infact he or she is 100 meters pass the standard. That NCO Understands their duty and if they had to be promoted right then at that second they would without a doubt be ready for that rank.
quote:
Originally posted by seven0821:
You guys are right, a "2" is technically not a bad rating, but a "2" will slow you down for promotion once it comes to DA select boards.


Not true at all. I had an NCOER that I received a 2 for promotion potential because I had JUST been promoted to a higher rank. Nothing about my NCOER was lacking and it wasn't a ding at all. I was selected for SFC on my first look.
quote:
Originally posted by SFC W:
quote:
Originally posted by seven0821:
You guys are right, a "2" is technically not a bad rating, but a "2" will slow you down for promotion once it comes to DA select boards.


Not true at all. I had an NCOER that I received a 2 for promotion potential because I had JUST been promoted to a higher rank. Nothing about my NCOER was lacking and it wasn't a ding at all. I was selected for SFC on my first look.


Ok, understand there is always an exception. As I mentioned earlier, if you have a "2" rating in performance or potential but your bullets are saying something else, that may weigh more in the board's eyes.

Next, what was your time in service/ time in grade. I highly doubt someone with a 1/2, or 2/1 will make SFC in 7 years.

Also, I was not very clear either, but the competitiveness of your MOS matters, for example The Infantry is highly competitive so if you get a 2 rating you are behind the power curve.

Lastly assignments matter too, the fact of getting a 2 block but you are serving in a very demanding/challenging position like Drill Sgt, Ranger Instructor, West Point TAC, even Recruiter. The board recognizes this.
I hope no one in my MOS is making 7 in 7. I can think of ways to accumulate the credentials you need, but there is no chance of gaining job proficiency. The NCOER system is one of those things that should work, but doesn't when you inject the army into it. Hooking people up with these stellar reports just weakens us all down the road. 2/2 is what people need to think of as a good review. Instead, raters feel compelled to stick a 1 in there because they know a 2/2 will delay a career.
quote:
Originally posted by seven0821:
quote:
Originally posted by SFC W:
quote:
Originally posted by seven0821:
You guys are right, a "2" is technically not a bad rating, but a "2" will slow you down for promotion once it comes to DA select boards.


Not true at all. I had an NCOER that I received a 2 for promotion potential because I had JUST been promoted to a higher rank. Nothing about my NCOER was lacking and it wasn't a ding at all. I was selected for SFC on my first look.


Ok, understand there is always an exception. As I mentioned earlier, if you have a "2" rating in performance or potential but your bullets are saying something else, that may weigh more in the board's eyes.

Next, what was your time in service/ time in grade. I highly doubt someone with a 1/2, or 2/1 will make SFC in 7 years.

Also, I was not very clear either, but the competitiveness of your MOS matters, for example The Infantry is highly competitive so if you get a 2 rating you are behind the power curve.

Lastly assignments matter too, the fact of getting a 2 block but you are serving in a very demanding/challenging position like Drill Sgt, Ranger Instructor, West Point TAC, even Recruiter. The board recognizes this.


I pinned SFC at 7yr 9 months.
quote:
I pinned SFC at 7yr 9 months.


As i stated there are several things that could outweigh "2" rating, such as
- MOS( if the Army needs SFCs in that field)
- assignment( the more demanding and challenging the better)
- and great bullets that indicate otherwise of your rating

And lastly like I said there is always an exeption if, sometimes someone records speaks that they are an oustanding NCO.

But don't quote me as if I said something completely false or as if I don't know what I am taking about because the fact of the matter is while a"2" is technically good, it could put you behind the promotion fast track if your peers are getting "1" ratings
Don't get me wrong...I think the army has jobs out there where people can gain the general soldier skills and the job knowledge to pin on in 7. I just don't think mine is one of them.

I really do get annoyed at how raters have to fudge these NCOERs though. I have a bullet that basically says I was integral into driving the insurgents out of an area in Afghanistan. I threw up a little in my mouth...
quote:
Originally posted by seven0821:
quote:
I pinned SFC at 7yr 9 months.


But don't quote me as if I said something completely false or as if I don't know what I am taking about because the fact of the matter is while a"2" is technically good, it could put you behind the promotion fast track if your peers are getting "1" ratings


Calm down, killer. You simply said that you wanted more information about the details of my promotion.

NCOERs are grossly exaggerated and while a 2 is technically successful, it does have a negative ring to it. However, that 2 isn't the end all be all of your NCOER. You said yourself that bullets matter, and they do.

I have always consistently had college and I had a year of Platoon Sergeant time by the time I was up for the SFC board, which I think helped immensely.

As a 2nd example, I had a serious conflict with my senior rater in Afghanistan. I had 3 Excellent and 2 Success blocks, and was credited with being the first NCOIC that helped establish the Counter Narcotics unit for the country, but was rated 2/1. Again, I don't feel that it will affect my promotion. It just highlights the disconnect between my rater/senior rater.
I was a little worried about my near future NCOERs. I'm not a PT stud, never have been, never will be. I can pass pt tests, just about 70-80 in each event. Having spent my time as an engineer, I saw some NCOs get all emotional for a 2/1 rating. I know the job I'm going into is nowhere near as competitive for E7, but as I want to make a strong career out of the army, I need NCOERs that get higher leadership to look past the lack of pt ability. I have my strong points, and I know it's on me to make my career look good.

As for TIS to make certain grades, I have to agree. Even I have no business making E7 in less than 10 years as a linguist (35P, not 35M). I've worked with intel before, so I know how specific the job is, and I don't want the level of responsibility until I have the experience to back it up. And I say "even I" because I'm as good at languages as they get.
When it comes to Promotions, a lot of people get wrapped up with TIS. What I think it really boils down to is experience and proving yourself within your field and that you are more than competent in the particular position you are holding. One's TIS does give experience but I'm mainly speaking of expierence in your duty position.( for example if you've only been in 6 yrs but the last 3 yrs has been as a Squad Leader OR you've been in 6 yrs and the last yr as a PSG) I understand completely that there are some jobs out there that require a ton of knowledge and experience, so no matter how highspeed the NCO may be it may still take him or her 10 yrs to make SFC.

I can only speak really on my MOS which is 11B, because of 2 conflicts the real world experience we get is invaluable to our field. You take SSG from the Infantry who has proven himself in garrison as a leader, trainer, mentor then he deploys for 12 months and performs well, in due time he will make the promotion list. deployments are where we make our money. While it sucks for some MOS because deployment or not it takes alot of work for you guys. Some MOS end up deploying and not even working in their field for 12. Months
quote:
Originally posted by seven0821:
When it comes to Promotions, a lot of people get wrapped up with TIS. What I think it really boils down to is experience and proving yourself within your field and that you are more than competent in the particular position you are holding.


I agree with this. This is one of the trickier tasks to accomplish, IMO. You can always strive for positions of greater responsibility within your unit, but getting a variety of assignment can be difficult.
Its all pretty funny to me too. I made SFC on my first look as well and I have NEVER had anything better than a 1/2 on my NCOERs.

As SFC W said previously, don't get wrapped up in number ratings on the NCOER or with TIS/TIG requirements. There are perfectly good reasons why Senior SSGs with tons of TIG/TIS and awesome NCOERs are never picked up.

The Bullets on the NCOER is where you make your money. Show competency in your MOS. Provide good crisp bullets with quantifiable (a firm number or percentage) and qualitative (high quality bullets, no fillers, no fluff) bullets (Q&Q).

All my NCOERs had Q&Q bullets in every category despite the fact that I might have only gotten Superior instead of Excellent.

Someone in the thread mentioned that 1/1's should be reserved for the best NCO in the Company, or top 3 in the BN, but I don't think thats right at all. Theoretically if you are a true 1/1, with fully staffed Q&Q bullets in each category, you would be in the top 5-10% of ALL NCOs in the entire Army.

In my mind 1/1 states that you walk on water, and if you are that great of a Soldier/NCO, then get your write up! However, almost all of us can find tons within ourselves and our performance to critique. A 1/2, 2/1 or 2/2 is a great NCOER if the bullets hold weight. They show that although you did tons of Badass things you and your rater grade yourself honestly, and that even though you have awesome bullets, you and your rater know you have room to grow.

But thats just my two cents.
If 2 SFCs are telling me they made E7 in 7yrs or on their 1st look with less than a 1/1 rating, then I stand corrected. However in my MOS, if you are trying to make SFC on you 1st look getting a 2/1 or a 1/2 is going to hurt more than help.
Bottomline we all agree BULLETS are the most important

I disagree with the fact that if you get a 1/1 you must walk on water. I have no clue what that walk on water statement means, like give me an example of what bullets would say of someone deserving of a 1/1. I ask because all of my NCOERs have been a 1/1 and Ive felt I deserved all of them. As a SSG, I have proven myself successful in garrison and combat, won several boards at BN and BDE level, always scores 290 or better on APFT, earned an Associates Degree, graduated Ranger School, graduated NCOES with honors, etc. I don't walk on water but I work damn hard to separate myself and prove I am a well rounded NCO. While some of you on this forum have accomplished just as much if not more I just refuse to believe Im not among the best,I know I am, and the day I get rated anything less, I will bust my but even harder to prove that I am.
Seven,

You actually just helped prove my point.

quote:
As a SSG, I have proven myself successful in garrison and combat, won several boards at BN and BDE level, always scores 290 or better on APFT, earned an Associates Degree, graduated Ranger School, graduated NCOES with honors


If you have done all this, or this many things of a similar manner, in a single rating period, then I would def agree that a 1/1 is warranted. The comments I made were in reference to those who do have good bullets, but know that their bullets could be better. If your bullets are the strongest they can possibly be, then hell yeah you deserve that 1/1. But we all know that there are many NCOER's where even if they have done good things, filling out the NCOER with Q&Q bullets isnt always easy.

And to further illustrates my point, if you had those bullets and SOMEHOW managed to get a 1/2 or 2/1, the board reviewer would be able to read those Q&Q bullets and realize that your resume is better than the numbers may seem. Well written bullets based off a resume like that can get you far despite the numbers on the bottom.

Honestly if I could have those kind of stats to fill an NCOER with every time, it would be the easiest one I've ever written lol.

The main point I was making was that the people talking about not getting a 1/1 didn't even mention having the small piece of resume that you referenced. Those looking to not only get that 1/1 but have the badass Q&Q bullets to back it up, need to step up in schools, college, boards, and work to get the strong bullets they will need.

Also, for the record, I didn't make the list in 7, I made it in 8 yrs 10 months, with my actual Promotion date at 9 yrs 7 months (picking up of SEQ#'s on my list killed me for those 9 months lol) And when it comes to me, and my MOS I was lucky to be one of the very few eligible that had over 30 months deployed with leadership positions in all levels of Intel. I got lucky that of all the crap I endured as a young Knucklehead paid off with experience as well as teaching me to be more mature lol
SFC Martinez,
I hear you loud and clear. Even in the previous post. I agree with what you're saying and while sometimes I may see things different, Im still taking in the knowledge you are putting out and learning from it. The SFC Board is tricky, well not really but can be for some. Since I was a Sergeant, I have been reading the AARs and picking up in the areas the board said NCOs were lacking and when my turn came, it was easy.
One thing that some of the comabt arms posters aren't figuring into the equation. How are about 95% of the support MOSes supposed to get certain schools such as SERE, Ranger, Diver, Pathfinder, etc. if you are say.....in Finance, or JAG. While civilian education will enhance these areas. Lets face it other than NCOES schools, what miliatary education (in their career fields) can they realistically expect to enter into without at least burning a reenlistment option?

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