Want Intel MOS with Language

Very good. 97 series all require language and you will go to DLI in Monterey, CA to learn it...DLI is an EXCELLENT language school. If you pass with a 2, 2, 2 proficiency (which you will beause you need to in order to be MOSQ) they will also give you an AA for your language because they are an accredited university. DO IT...IT'S def. worth it.

http://www.us-army-info.com/pa...ntelligence-mos.html

http://www.dliflc.edu/index.html
Corvette 2/2/2 is reading/listening/speaking. It's not that great to be truthful.

3/3 is about the equivalent of a high school graduate. A 5 is the equivalent of a native speaker but the DLPT doesn't test above a 3 unless specifically requested.

Here is a better breakdown:

quote:

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/capemay/education/dlpt.asp

LVL 2:

Limited working proficiency

*

Reading: Sufficient comprehension to read simple, authentic written material in a form equivalent to usual printing or typescript on subjects within a familiar context. Able to read with some misunderstandings straightforward, familiar, factual material, but in general insufficiently experienced with the language to draw inferences directly from the linguistic aspects of the text. Can locate and understand the main ideas and details in material written for the general reader. However, persons who have professional knowledge of a subject may be able to summarize or perform sorting and locating tasks with written texts that are well beyond their general proficiency level. The individual can read uncomplicated, but authentic prose on familiar subjects that are normally presented in a predictable sequence which aids the reader in understanding. Texts may include descriptions and narrations in contexts such as news items describing frequently occurring events, simple biographical information, social notices, formulaic business letters, and simple technical material written for the general reader. Generally the prose that can be read by the individual is predominantly in straightforward/high-frequency sentence patterns. The individual does not have a broad active vocabulary (that is, which he/she recognizes immediately on sight), but is able to use contextual and real-world cues to understand the text. Characteristically, however, the individual is quite slow in performing such a process. Is typically able to answer factual questions about authentic texts of the types described above.
*

Listening: Sufficient comprehension to understand conversations on routine social demands and limited job requirements. Able to understand face-to-face speech in a standard dialect, delivered at a normal rate with some repetition and rewording, by a native speaker not used to dealing with foreigners, about everyday topics, common personal and family news, well-known current events and routine office matters through descriptions and narration about current, past and future events; can follow essential points of discussion or speech at an elementary level on topics in his/her special professional field. Only understands occasional words and phrases of statements made in unfavorable conditions, for example through loudspeakers outdoors. Understands factual content. Native language causes less interference in listening comprehension. Able to understand facts; i.e., the lines but not between or beyond the lines.


That being said, often times scores can be misleading. I graduated DLI as a 3/3/1+ (2 and 2+ speaking scores are VERY rare in Persian Farsi). I have acted as an interpreter on many occasions in Dari in Afghanistan and in Persian during exercises as recently as February.

However, since the newest version of the DLPT has come out, I am only a 2/2 (the last number, the oral proficiency, is only given in special circumstances to include initial graduation from DLI). So my language skills are far superior to what my test scores indicate.

Unfortunately the score chart still hasn't changed, just the test. So a 2/2 is still pretty mediocre.

Native speakers should have no difficultly scoring 3-5 on DLPT tests (provided the test is testing in their applicable dialect, if they have one) so 2/2 is not so hot. It's barely passing.
quote:
Originally posted by MI_SilentWarrior:
I know that 35M (97E) no longer requires a foreign language.
This is also not entirely correct. If a Soldier is DLI trained in their control language, they must maintain proficiency still despite the MOS being language-capable instead of language-dependent. Not to be a stickler, but this could be misleading.

Furthermore, the graduation requirement for all non-35M (to include other DoD component linguists) at DLI is 2/2/1+ (unless something has VERY recently changed). For 35M it is 2/2/2.

Per MILPER message:

quote:
B. SOLDIERS ACADEMICALLY DROPPED FROM LANGUAGE TRAINING:

(1) WHEN INITIAL ENTRY AND PRIOR SERVICE SOLDIERS ARE ACADEMICALLY DROPPED FROM A LANGUAGE COURSE OR SOLDIER FAILS TO MEET DLPT GRADUATION STANDARDS (2/2/1+), NOTIFY HRC LANGUAGE BRANCH AT 502-613-5423 OR 502-613-5416, FOR FURTHER DISPOSITION.

(3) SOLDIERS FAILING TO MEET DLPT STANDARDS MAY RECEIVE A WAIVER FROM HRC LANGUAGE BRANCH AND PROCEED TO GOODFELLOW AFB TO ATTEND 35P TRAINING. THOSE WHO DO NOT RECEIVE A WAIVER MAY BE RECLASSIFIED INTO ANOTHER LANGUAGE CAPABLE MOS OR OTHER MILITARY INTELLIGENCE (MI) SHORTAGE MOS.


Lastly they will not "give" you a degree for your language. You still must complete common core classes, to include science with lab, English Comp, Algebra or higher, etc. They definitely give quite a bit of credit, but it's not a "gimme".

quote:
35F never had a language requirement. After about 2009 or so 35M no longer was a language dependent MOS. I BELIEVE 35 N does though.


35N is not language-dependent. Currently the only MOSs in the Army that are language-dependent are:

09L - Native speaking interpreters
35P - SIGINT
352P - SIGINT tech
37F - PSYOPS (get some training, usually not enough to be completely fluent, but you still must pass a DLAB and get language trained)
48B/C/D/E/F/G//H/I/J (foreign area officers)
18 - Some SF MOS once/if trained

And any MOS (35M/351M/35L/351L) that has previously been DLI-trained in their control language. For example, a 35M native Spanish speaker (QB language code) is exempt from the language requirement of the MOS. However, someone like myself, a 35M trained in Persian-Farsi at DLI is required to maintain language proficiency.

As a caveat, there was a MILPER message released that basically revoked the negative actions against people for failing language requirements due to OPTEMPO and the inability for units to get them language refresher (think DLI-trained Chinese Mandarin linguists deployed to Iraq over and over again).
The funny thing is that all "Native" speakers I have met in Recruiting (there have been a lot too) seen to only score 2/2/2 if they are lucky.

Which I completely do not understand at all, because if I dreamed in a language, like many heritage speakers do I would be rather fluent in it.
quote:
Originally posted by RMEWife2011:
The funny thing is that all "Native" speakers I have met in Recruiting (there have been a lot too) seen to only score 2/2/2 if they are lucky.

Which I completely do not understand at all, because if I dreamed in a language, like many heritage speakers do I would be rather fluent in it.
There is always more to the story than what you see.

For one, the new DLPT V is very difficult. For example, the DLPT IV in Farsi would ask a question based on "a conversation in a train station". In the DLPT V, it's the same, EXCEPT that you actually now have background noise of trains going AND you're trying to translate.

More importantly, the DLPT is based on usually one dialect. So if you have a Spanish native speaker from Cuba and the the Spanish on the DLPT V is from Honduras, they might have a difficulty understanding it because of the dialects.

Someone from Yemen or Sudan taking the Arabic DLPT might fail because the Arabic DLPT is in Modern Standard Arabic. While MSA is the "standard", it is also what most of the newspapers, media, etc use, whereas someone not familiar with that print (maybe from a rural area or place without electricity) might not be exposed to that form. In addition, the Quran is written in Classical Arabic not Modern Standard Arabic, and many countries teach language while simultaneously teaching the Quran scriptures.

Lastly, the OPI (oral proficiency interview) is utterly and completely subjective in scoring. It's usually two native speakers asking you questions and asking you to solve problems (such as being on vacation with your family and trying to change your flight, or your car breaks down in a remote village, etc) and based solely on their judgment on that time. While there is specific criteria, oftentimes the instructors don't even ask the correct questions.

When I took my OPI at DLI they failed to what's called "probing" for the next highest level (level 2) because when I was describing my hobbies I said I like to clean cars. I meant to say I like to WORK ON cars (the word for clean is Tamir and work is Tamiz). This confused them and based on that one word alone they decided I didn't have the knowledge for Level 2 and so they didn't even probe me for knowledge despite that being my best subject (usually for level 2 they will ask questions and opinions on current events topics).

The questions on the DLPT are also often worded poorly in English as well, because the people making the test are not native English speakers (even though the test is supposed to be reviewed by English speaking natives before final approval). So they often use the incorrect adjective. For example, they might ask you to read a passage and say: "the author of this passage could be described as: melancholy, angry, frustrated, etc" but use the wrong word (or something close but not quite what a native would pick) for the correct answer.

And one more thing, some of the questions are in the middle eastern languages at least from poetry that's like 2000 years old.

Those are just a few examples but should paint the picture as to why it is difficult to score high, even as a native speaker, in some instances.
To the OP, if you want to learn a language, you should try to come in as a 35P. That MOS still has the language requirement. You'll need to take a DLAB though. It's a strange test but do-able.

As far as DLPT 5, I think it is much more accurate than DLPT 4. I think folks got an inflated sense of language ability after taking what was pretty much a glorified vocab test. DLPT 5 does a better job of measuring ones ability to interact in the language, at least IMO.

Now, they did have to work out a few kinks, but it's a much better tool for measuring actual language proficiency than DLPT 4 ever was.

But hey, at least we dont take the same test as the DoS. The guys I met who had to take that one were jealous of us and wished they only had to take the DLPT.
quote:
Originally posted by 35M4LN7PF:
quote:
Originally posted by Corvette1140:
You forgot to mention Army Attache.
Yes, but attaches can have the language requirement waived.


Really, where can I get ahold of this info since I only scored an 83 on the DLAB (and do not speak other languages), but meet all the other prequlas.
Per AR 611-60:

b. It is recommended that the candidate possess some proficiency in the language of the country for which he/she is
applying or being nominated as measured by the DLPT. Applicants should have a score of at least 100 on the DLAB.
A score of less than 100 on the DLAB is not a disqualifying factor for attaché duty but does limit assignment
possibilities.
Corvette, if you are still looking for info on becoming an Attache NCO, you can find the prereqs and application process at dia.mil . I looked into this before and email, the NCO incharge of the selection process was very helpful. Last time I checked, they had examples of everything you were required to do. If not I can email everything to you I still have it saved.
I am currently looking at a 35P or 35M position for the Wisconsin NG and am wondering if you would be able to answer a couple of my questions. Basically my goal would be to learn Farsi at the DLI and then return from training to hopefully obtain some kind of Farsi interpreting or translating job, while doing the active reserve. I currently work as a Spanish Medical Interpreter and have been doing so for over a year.

In your expierence, how likely do you think it is that I would be able to obtain a legitimate(i.e. well paying) job that would involve Farsi shortling after graduating from the DLI? My ultimate goal is to work for the State Department first and then any of the federal agencies, FBI, NSA, DIA, CIA, etc, but in the meantime do you think it would be probable that I could find a position elsewhere while I am trying to get through the entrance procedures for the federal agencies (I am more that willing to relocate)?

My second question is the following: Upon graduating from the DLI what would you think my language proficiency would be? Would the DLI be enough to get me to a 3/3/3, which seems to be required by most contracting jobs involving Farsi? I learned Spanish as a second language, to about a 4/4/4 level I would estimate..so I would hope my previous expierence in language aquisition could help.

Well thank you in advance for you time!

quote:
Originally posted by 35M4LN7PF:
Corvette 2/2/2 is reading/listening/speaking. It's not that great to be truthful.

3/3 is about the equivalent of a high school graduate. A 5 is the equivalent of a native speaker but the DLPT doesn't test above a 3 unless specifically requested.

Here is a better breakdown:

quote:

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/capemay/education/dlpt.asp

LVL 2:

Limited working proficiency

*

Reading: Sufficient comprehension to read simple, authentic written material in a form equivalent to usual printing or typescript on subjects within a familiar context. Able to read with some misunderstandings straightforward, familiar, factual material, but in general insufficiently experienced with the language to draw inferences directly from the linguistic aspects of the text. Can locate and understand the main ideas and details in material written for the general reader. However, persons who have professional knowledge of a subject may be able to summarize or perform sorting and locating tasks with written texts that are well beyond their general proficiency level. The individual can read uncomplicated, but authentic prose on familiar subjects that are normally presented in a predictable sequence which aids the reader in understanding. Texts may include descriptions and narrations in contexts such as news items describing frequently occurring events, simple biographical information, social notices, formulaic business letters, and simple technical material written for the general reader. Generally the prose that can be read by the individual is predominantly in straightforward/high-frequency sentence patterns. The individual does not have a broad active vocabulary (that is, which he/she recognizes immediately on sight), but is able to use contextual and real-world cues to understand the text. Characteristically, however, the individual is quite slow in performing such a process. Is typically able to answer factual questions about authentic texts of the types described above.
*

Listening: Sufficient comprehension to understand conversations on routine social demands and limited job requirements. Able to understand face-to-face speech in a standard dialect, delivered at a normal rate with some repetition and rewording, by a native speaker not used to dealing with foreigners, about everyday topics, common personal and family news, well-known current events and routine office matters through descriptions and narration about current, past and future events; can follow essential points of discussion or speech at an elementary level on topics in his/her special professional field. Only understands occasional words and phrases of statements made in unfavorable conditions, for example through loudspeakers outdoors. Understands factual content. Native language causes less interference in listening comprehension. Able to understand facts; i.e., the lines but not between or beyond the lines.


That being said, often times scores can be misleading. I graduated DLI as a 3/3/1+ (2 and 2+ speaking scores are VERY rare in Persian Farsi). I have acted as an interpreter on many occasions in Dari in Afghanistan and in Persian during exercises as recently as February.

However, since the newest version of the DLPT has come out, I am only a 2/2 (the last number, the oral proficiency, is only given in special circumstances to include initial graduation from DLI). So my language skills are far superior to what my test scores indicate.

Unfortunately the score chart still hasn't changed, just the test. So a 2/2 is still pretty mediocre.

Native speakers should have no difficultly scoring 3-5 on DLPT tests (provided the test is testing in their applicable dialect, if they have one) so 2/2 is not so hot. It's barely passing.
quote:
I am currently looking at a 35P or 35M position for the Wisconsin NG and am wondering if you would be able to answer a couple of my questions. Basically my goal would be to learn Farsi at the DLI and then return from training to hopefully obtain some kind of Farsi interpreting or translating job, while doing the active reserve. I currently work as a Spanish Medical Interpreter and have been doing so for over a year.

In your expierence, how likely do you think it is that I would be able to obtain a legitimate(i.e. well paying) job that would involve Farsi shortling after graduating from the DLI? My ultimate goal is to work for the State Department first and then any of the federal agencies, FBI, NSA, DIA, CIA, etc, but in the meantime do you think it would be probable that I could find a position elsewhere while I am trying to get through the entrance procedures for the federal agencies (I am more that willing to relocate)?

My second question is the following: Upon graduating from the DLI what would you think my language proficiency would be? Would the DLI be enough to get me to a 3/3/3, which seems to be required by most contracting jobs involving Farsi? I learned Spanish as a second language, to about a 4/4/4 level I would estimate..so I would hope my previous expierence in language aquisition could help.

Well thank you in advance for you time!

Usually the main jobs you will find will be working for the government or agencies from what I've seen. But ultimately, tied in with you second question, pretty much you have a slim to none chance of getting a 3/3/3. I have friends that are multiple middle eastern languages and still score far below a 3/3/3. Even if you did, you still wouldn't be a native speaker, which mean a lot. I certainly don't want to crush your dreams or anything, but it's just simply not realistic. A native linguist knows so much more about the language than you ever will, even if you manage to learn enough vocabulary to to score a 3/3. Simply the culture and growing up around it is going to make you that actual linguist able to readily translate documents and whatnot. There are simply too many words you can't look up in a dictionary - you just have to KNOW them.

I also highly suggest taking the DLPT and see where you stand with Spanish. I'm going to bet you are far below what you think you are, as are most people. We have two native Spanish speakers who are 30+ years old and have been speaking Spanish their ENTIRE lives who scored a 2/2 and 2+/2+ on the exam. It's just not as easy as you think it is.

The good news is, that most agencies and whatnot have very little Farsi linguists. So you will be able to find a good job - however, not as someone hired on as a native speaker. And if you look at most of those websites they pretty much insinuate or come right out and say you will need to be a native speaker.

I have been a linguist for 7 years almost. I've had 52 weeks of Farsi school, 15 weeks of refresher courses, I've been through every Farsi Rosetta Stone, and I've studied literally hundreds and hundreds of hours on my own, and no way am I a native linguist or even close to being a "4/4/4".

You might think that I am just trying to rain on your parade, but I promise that is NOT the case. What I DON'T want to happen is for you to join the Army for all the wrong reasons thinking you will be something you are not, and then being miserable at your job...and furthermore, I don't want the Army to waste hundreds of thousands of dollars for the same reason.

I definitely wish you luck in whatever you do.

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